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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to wish doctors weren't going on strike

721 replies

MissTriggs · 19/11/2015 14:01

After 5 months of misdiagnoses, being sent to the wrong person, explaining why suggestions weren't helpful, holding my GP's hand and fighting to get to the right person I'm now booked in to have the test I need on 2nd December, the day after the strike.

If my test was on 1st December I'd be pretty upset

I then read a post on here from a junior doctor claiming s/he could make more money "as a manager at Greggs" and that tipped me over the edge.

I saw lots of posts from doctors saying they already work weekends but it turns out they get paid extra for this at present.

I think doctors have no idea what it is to work in a job where you can be sacked easily, where you don't know whether work is coming in from day to day, where your employers have no interest in getting you back to work after a career break and where you either have no pension or the value of your pension can fall from year to year and be worth nothing.
I also think they don't realise that, whilst a generation ago doctors might have been unusual in working antisocial hours, nowadays all professionals are expected to be available all the time.

I might be wrong, but I don't think I'm being unreasonable here.

OP posts:
howtorebuild · 20/11/2015 00:52

No, I covered my thoughts on jd earlier in the thread.

howtorebuild · 20/11/2015 00:53

The professor worked in the NHS, he retired a few years ago.

LineyReborn · 20/11/2015 00:54

I don't know what your condition is, howtorebuild. I'm sojorry you are ill. I'm currently in ill health. But I don't think the NHS will be made better by imposing appalling terms and conditions - and long unremunerated working hours- on junior hospital doctors. Backwards step.

howtorebuild · 20/11/2015 00:56

I agree, I said that earlier. I got pissed off being told to get over it and pay to go private, because I don't have a simple run of the mill condition. I am touchy because a misdiagnosis cost my family everything.

Headmelt · 20/11/2015 00:59

YABVU.

m1nniedriver · 20/11/2015 01:00

I seem to notice more bullshit every time I read your post Confused

labelled people behaving like you as practicing lazy medicine.

People like who exactly? Doctors who claim not to be superhuman Confused unlike your professor who clearly gets his superhuman powers from his fat wallet bursting at the seams, with half your annual salary in it

LineyReborn · 20/11/2015 01:03

I think a delayed diagnosis for a rare condition is understandable within a free health care system.

An actual misdiagnosis isn't. Did you take it up with the relevant Trust? Tbh I've always found mine very responsive.

Sorry you had such a shitty time of it.

Hatethis22 · 20/11/2015 01:07

The Tories are systematically dismantling the NHS.

howtorebuild · 20/11/2015 01:12

Yes I did, I posted earlier, some were ok some not. I took it to the head of Life sciences at Doh as I petitioned the government.

Actually I think the Prof is ploughing his private fees into the charity. There have been lots of private donations since he retired from the nhs. I could be wrong though.

Want2bSupermum · 20/11/2015 01:24

mamadoc It is good to hear your perspective. I do think that limiting the number of doctors is not a good policy. So they don't want to pay them.... when they are paying a higher price by hiring locum doctors to plug the gap. Also, it isn't so much about patients being a downside. I see it as more of a difference in working conditions that affect productivity. I can see how a doctor working in A&E can get jaded from dealing with drunken idiots coming in with self inflicted injuries.

louise You would be shocked at how much work is done that late. DH has calls at 3am from HQ in Europe. When he asked them to be mindful of the time difference they told him that he should look at his salary before complaining. They started doing the same to his assistant and DH had an absolute fit as the assistant isn't paid well. DH wrote and email to the assistant and copied in the person in HQ to confirm he gave permission for the assistant to not answer calls between the hours of 10pm and 7am. This caused a major ruckus as apparently it is now expected that employees are available 24/7.

I also see it with my clients. The vast majority of my clients have many people working until 10pm Monday - Friday and on weekends. I do not know anyone who works 9-5 if they are FT. Best hours are my friend who works for Inland Revenue who works 8am-6pm. Even then she often works late a couple of days a week but from home. People here in the US normally work 7:30/8am to 7/8pm Monday through Friday and a couple of hours over the weekend.

m1nniedriver · 20/11/2015 01:24

Wow, the prof sounds like he is superhuman after all. There are other ways of donating to charity without bankrupting people who are desperate for help also slating the NHS wouldn't be him touting for business at all would it? Hmm.

Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost · 20/11/2015 01:24

No you're not being unreasonable, but you have to understand why they're doing it. I know that them having their reasons is no consolation to you mind.

howtorebuild · 20/11/2015 01:26

There are three of us, we had to see several specialists after the Prof and with travel included it cost thousands in total. It cost me tens of thousands in the family court. It cost me my home and my children their education and damaged all our health.

Three family members not doctors were life long nhs staff. Our family some of which earned six figures and I when I could work, paid tax to fund training and general nhs. Not in touch anymore with them as they like you and your colleagues didn't believe us. You speak of us as if we were undeserving of care and a correct diagnosis, that's hurtful.

m1nniedriver · 20/11/2015 01:37

Confused you've lost me? Me and my colleagues didn't believe you? I think your undeserving of care? You don't speak to your 3 family members because they worked in the NHS and didn't believe you, like me apparently?

Bloody hell, MN is too random for this time of night Shock

m1nniedriver · 20/11/2015 01:40

Wish i had just written YABVU and scuttled off to a thread about cat shit and McDonald's Confused

howtorebuild · 20/11/2015 01:56

I wish you had too, your comments of get over it and pay privately, then subsequent posts were very upsetting.

Baconyum · 20/11/2015 04:31

Yabu as I think (hope) you now know. However these were my thoughts as I rtft:

“I think doctors have no idea what it is to work in a job where you can be

sacked easily” - drs can also be suspended and sacked easily if accused of something with little to no evidence sometimes. False accusations and complaints can seriously damage and lose them not only a job but their entire career which they’ll have trained 7+ years for

“Most senior Drs have a deep seated fear of ever incurring a GMC complaint. Even if totally unjustified it is guilty until proven innocent. A malicious complaint can destroy your whole career very easily. There was a recent investigation into the high number of Drs who kill themselves whilst involved in GMC proceedings.”

“where your employers have no interest in getting you back to work after a career break” - this deal they’re striking over is especially punitive to women

“And where you either have no pension or the value of your pension can fall from year to year and be worth nothing”. - also happening to them for years

“I also think they don't realise that, whilst a generation ago doctors might have been unusual in working antisocial hours, nowadays all professionals are expected to be available all the time”. - but they are paid for it. This deal means they may not get paid at all for some o/t plus it means drs working excessive hours which is dangerous to patients!

“For women, medicine is a far better career than law or business because the NHS allows them to work part time and wants them back after they've had babies.” Where the hell have you got that idea from?! I'm ex NHS and I can assure you there is massive pressure even if you do manage to get a p/t contract to work full time hours with little to no regard for childcare or other caring responsibilities.

“radio station I listen to or the newspapers I read.” curious, which ones?

“But lots of GPs work part time don't they?” again, officially maybe, the reality is many are working till 10/11pm at home catching up on paperwork, researching patient conditions and meds and treatments…

“Have you ever tried to find childcare that starts at 0630 for a 7am start?!?” or for midnight finish, irregular nightshifts…

“Who is running these hospitals” incompetent numpties who have no front line experience within healthcare. Seriously I worked in one hospital where the ceo was something like a car manufacturer previously! And that's not DM fuelled management bashing its my personal experience.

“And would all drs really make a living privately if the NHS collapsed? Personally I doubt it. Setting up in business for yourself is not as easy as sticking up a sign and waiting for the patients to come to you.” Think this poster misunderstood. If NHS abolished private companies would take over the hospitals (like America) and you'd have to pay for each and every service you received. Your bed being changed, floor mopped, bins emptied, every ob taken etc also a la America you'd be lucky to get seen unless an emergency without expensive health insurance. Insurance companies won't cover new drugs and treatments…

“would be incredibly arrogant to think we could manage without our colleagues.” a lot of people definitely don't get this. If things were to go hunts way this would also have an effect on administrators, porters, radiographers, lab Tech's, phlebotomists, physios…not to mention hcp’s, nurses and midwives

“The issue is very simple. Money” actually I'd say greed! Particularly sickening given the recent announcement that Cameron's getting a fucking private jet!!

Fyi Jeremy hunts office is iirc open mon-fri 9-1630 and close earlier on a Fri.

Yes you've had a difficult time OP with getting a diagnosis but bear in mind the following:

When a patient presents a Dr is essentially presented with a box with something in it. They have to figure out what's in that box without being able to look inside or ‘shake’ the box.

They can ask questions but the answers they receive may be irrelevant, misleading, lies or the patient has misunderstood the question. This is even more likely when patients Google their symptoms and eg refuse to accept a bad headache is more likely to be the beginnings of a migraine than a tumour.

In addition each symptom has iirc an average of 50 possible conditions causing them.

“Workers rights are being abused across the board, if more people joined unions there would be more protection for all. If unions could get involved there'd be none of the zero hours rubbish. We should be supporting the Doctors striking not moaning about it, same with transport workers strikes, public sector the lot. I really don't understand why more shop workers don't join their union - they are so vulnerable. Rights that have been fought for over many decades are being dismissed because people don't join unions and therefore the unions have less and less influence.” Agreed. Think people have forgotten that unions aren't just strike machines! Unions got laws changed especially regarding age of workers, pay equality, maternity rights etc

mamadoc good on you!

“I'm a consultant. I have actively been encouraging my juniors to strike”.

Scooby
“I always felt nurses should have gone on strike in the past but they wouldn't because they had the patient's welfare at heart. So we have not enough nurses doing ridiculous hours, yeah, great for the patients.” Also because as a mainly female workforce they are more likely to be vilified, criticised and penalised upon return to work.

“Also potentially a recipe for bullying?” Lots of bullying and pressure to cover things up in nhs

“The public happily campaigns for more bobbies on the beat. Would a campaign for more front line staff not be effective?” Police getting major cuts too - and they're not allowed to strike!

“The working world has changed and not for the better.” in the UK. I've lived in Europe and many of us holiday there. I can think of several countries where many things simply aren't open on a Sunday and only half day on a Saturday as family and free time is values! Tories in particular seem to want to run UK like a sweatshop!

“poorbuthappy

Why not ? Do people only get ill between 9 and 5 Monday to Friday?”

No, but excepting genuine emergencies and hospitalised and therefore seriously ill patients most things can wait! There are numerous threads by infuriated mners who know of people who use gp/a&e when there's clearly no bloody need!

“Of course we can't be seen to waste public funds but there must be some token ways we could do this.” I wouldn't see minor contribution towards morale as wasting money.

Any USA dwellers - it might be really enlightening to hear costs of healthcare in USA (as Tories seem to want us to head toward that system?) Eg how much is a visit to a gp? How much for a standard 7 day script for amoxycillin/painkillers? How much for a visit to a&e with a child who's bumped their head? How much for childbirth?

Imho given this tory govt have persecuted/are persecuting -

All emergency services
The NHS in general
Civil servants in general
Education
Sick, disabled and LP (aka me! LOVE the villification I constantly get in the media, doesn't make my health worse AT ALL!

I personally think a general strike would be a bloody good idea! Actually I think a fucking revolution is in order!

ProjectPerfect · 20/11/2015 05:24

For women, medicine is a far better career than law or business because the NHS allows them to work part time and wants them back after they've had babies

I'm not in medicine but fall into your "less good" category above. I work approx 50 hours a week and receive a generous salary.

Sometime I work more but that is often on my terms - sat at my desk at home or on the sofa, sometimes with a glass of wine.

I've never had to miss a DCs birthday or a wedding a hospital appointment or a holiday and whilst I can't go to every music recital or sports match if I schedule to go, I go.

When I do work late nights, early mornings and weekends I'm incentivised by a performance plan which will see me taking home up to 50% of my salary as a bonus.

I had a year maternity leave with each of my DC and then returned.

Doctors working in the NHS dona phenomenal job. And one which is incomparable to any other. I support their strike.

DeoGratias · 20/11/2015 06:35

Let us turn that round to see the utter sexism in it.... by the way huge numbers of women are more than happy to work full time and leave others to do dull domestic stuff. We prefer to do well in careers and earn a fortune than change umpteen nappies a day or serve male needs...

"For men, medicine is a far better career than law or business because the NHS allows them to work part time and wants them back after they start a family..."

CPtart · 20/11/2015 07:02

As a nurse working in the NHS almost 25 years they have my full support. I wish nursing unions had the balls to strike too.

ivykaty44 · 20/11/2015 07:25

I got to the post where Misstrigg suggests medicine is a better career choice for woman as then after they have babies they can go back part time etc

Sexist attitude that stinks

Father's have babies

Lollipopgirl8 · 20/11/2015 07:25

I think some doctors are motivated by money just last week as part of teaching we had a lecture on the dark art of private practice, how to do it well and how much money one can make doing it

This lecture was given by an excellent surgeon who really cares for his patients

Most of the best surgeons in my specialty have the best private practices

This is why some specialties are more popular than others plus the issue with working conditions imposing the new JDC is going to make this worse and we will see more doctors leaving the "less attractive" areas and potentially a crisis

Freezingwinter · 20/11/2015 08:05

I've never met a doctor motivated by money. At 3am when you've stopped them writing a wrong prescription and they have their bleeper going off constantly I can guarantee its not the money they've made they are thinking about!!

Also doctors can't be sacked easily??? What about if they make a prescription error through over tiredness? Get a complaint about bedside manner because they're abrupt when they're overworked and rushing? Utter rubbish to say that!

The long and short of it is that unless you are happy to be seen and treated by overworked, underpaid and overtired medical staff (who will not be safe to practice in these conditions) then you should support their strike because ultimately it is the general public who will suffer as a result of what the government wants to do.

MargoReadbetter · 20/11/2015 08:08

YABU as you know by now.

Jibberjabberjooo · 20/11/2015 08:32

I've never had to miss a DCs birthday or a wedding a hospital appointment or a holiday and whilst I can't go to every music recital or sports match if I schedule to go, I go

I know a junior doctor who requested time off for her own wedding, and didn't get it. She had to desperately try and swap and ended up working nights in the run up.

I'm a nurse and support the doctors.

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