to wish doctors weren't going on strike

[MissTriggs]

After 5 months of misdiagnoses, being sent to the wrong person, explaining why suggestions weren't helpful, holding my GP's hand and fighting to get to the right person I'm now booked in to have the test I need on 2nd December, the day after the strike.

If my test was on 1st December I'd be pretty upset

I then read a post on here from a junior doctor claiming s/he could make more money "as a manager at Greggs" and that tipped me over the edge.

I saw lots of posts from doctors saying they already work weekends but it turns out they get paid extra for this at present.

I think doctors have no idea what it is to work in a job where you can be sacked easily, where you don't know whether work is coming in from day to day, where your employers have no interest in getting you back to work after a career break and where you either have no pension or the value of your pension can fall from year to year and be worth nothing.
I also think they don't realise that, whilst a generation ago doctors might have been unusual in working antisocial hours, nowadays all professionals are expected to be available all the time.

I might be wrong, but I don't think I'm being unreasonable here.

Also the issue I see with the NHS is the huge amount of paperwork. I've never seen so many forms and so much bloody paper. It is a huge problem and needs to be sorted. That's why this is a mgmt problem.

Useless paperwork is a direct result of the litigation culture we live in.

"You can get 10K in compensation if you develop a pressure sore". Amount quoted to me by a 45yo patient refusing to move post op sad reality!

I am all for the strike.

Healthcare workers of all types from senior docs down to cleaners should be given more appreciation.

I was at a hospital app yesterday and got speaking to the auxiliary who was working. She was on her fourth day of five days of 12/13 hour shift. On a 30 bed ward by herself. Do we really want people who are tired because they are over worked, working in hospitals where people could die.

There are plenty of consultants still working in the NHS well into their 70s.

I know 3 consultants who collapsed and died before they got the chance to retire.

My DH has just retired having worked for at least double his contracted hours (for his basic salary) for 35 years. I think he has pretty much earned his pension.

I support the junior doctors because I know how hard they work and just how dangerous this proposed change to their working conditions will be.

We were looking at jobs in the local paper last night.

Tube drivers are on £40K with free travel, excellent leave entitlement - yet they have been on strike recently.

Bus driver advertised at £30K plus free travel on all public transport, overtime, generous leave.

Phlebotomist (PT 27.5 h per week) in private hospital with interest free loan for travel, generous leave and free health insurance £20K pa. That is way better than a junior doctor gets. It isn't actually a lot less pro rata than a consultant when you consider that a consultant pays thousands in professional indemnity fees, doesn't get travel expenses, has to pay £50 per month to park in the hospital car park, doesn't get free health insurance or any perks at all.

We used to laugh about the fact that DH's (shared) office is actually a converted store cupboard (no window) but it is actually pretty grim.

The NHS is on its knees and is only going to get worse.

I too wish we weren't striking. Really good summation post by baconyum and thank you for the supportive consultants on here.

I've not had the most typical of careers, and am not yet a consultant in my mid 30s. I frequently start early, finish late, study at the weekend. My reality, pay wise, is that we can't afford to run two cars, and one time when I got a taxi home from work instead of waiting for the bus, the driver said "Xxxxx?! But you're a doctor. Doctors don't live there!"
This is my normal. I love my job and my patients (most of the time - had a very threatening, aggressive person last week) and I wouldn't do anything else. I love the NHS dearly, having watched a close relative and a close friend have significantly poorer care privately, I don't believe we can do better.

Jeremy Hunt wants to impose a contract he claims is cost neutral. Whilst making elective care available 7 days a week despite evidence the public don't want it. And making those extra hours cost the same. With no extra doctors.
His mathematics must surely be faulty! He yesterday again showed he is incapable of reading statistics in a paper, and with interests in private health care he's as appropriate a Health Secretary as a meat eater speaking for vegetarianism.

We've got to keep the public on side though. Explain, and listen, and explain again. I think we've done ok so far which is why there is more support than recent public sector strikes have had. This government intends to dismantle our, your NHS unless we're prepared to stand up and be counted.

DeoGratias There are a huge number of retired doctors out there who have their 30 years at tax payer expense having holidays nad sitting around whilst the rest of us work until we die to support them who can be brought out of retirement

Those doctors were presumably tax payers themselves? And lots of retired people have pensions at the tax payer's expense and might, just might, choose to go on holiday with some of that money.

I'm not planning on working until I die (unless, of course, death gets me unduly early). Given that I seem to recall you earn more per hour to travel on a train than I do in a day, I rather suspect you aren't either.

So, how do you incentivise retired doctors to return. I agree with you that it's a pool that might be tapped, as are those able to work in the UK but currently overseas. But to incentivise, you either need to create a financial scenario where returning is the more attractive option (this would translate as paying them handsomely/bonuses for returning/etc) or promise far better working working conditions for the same financial reward, which would bring higher levels of job satisfaction (this would translate as far greater doctor numbers, more than we can attract?).

And retired doctors are likely to have a far higher wage bill than junior doctors.

M1nnie I have seen the NHS nurses and doctors complete more paperwork than they do here in the US. You don't get more litigious than here.

Also why are they having patients move in bed to avoid pressure sores? Here the beds in the long term wards and hospices have the specialist beds that dont require the patient to be moved. Yes they are expensive at about $200k each but they have an estimated useful life of 10 years. The hospitals I have audited certainly saw the value in freeing up doctors and nurses from turning patients.

For patients who refuse to listen to the medical staff have to sign a waiver or do as the doctor says. Simple entry made in notes to say patient refusing to listen, waiver signed. As I said earlier they are writing on tablets while treating the patient. It's very very efficient.

If drs are unhappy and feel they would get a better deal elsewhere (either outside of this country or in another job) then they should just leave. It is the only thing this government are ever going to understand.

Want2bSupermum
The high standard of healthcare you're describing is routinely available to what proportion of the general population? Genuine q.

It is the only thing this government are ever going to understand
It's what the government wants, the collapse of the NHS. They aren't going to backtrack.

Better hope all the doctors that are unhappy with proposed changes don't just 'leave' who will provide healthcare?!

jibberjabberjoo

I think you missunderstood my post - the reason I've never missed those events is because I am NOT a doctor - I work in the profession that the OP claimed was much harder than medicine. I was calling BS.

Oooo Mrs Consultant - my husbands got a cupboard office too, it now has a window because our son drew one for him because he thought the office was too sad. As well as pens and paper he also had to provide his own shelves, computer monitor (they gave him the computer but no monitor) and chair. I've never had a job in the private sector where I had to provide my own chair!
Oh the perks of being a well respected consultant.

wonkylegs

Yes - DH had to put his own shelves up too! Management didn't think shelves were necessary so wouldn't sign the form. He takes his own paper and envelopes in because the Trust audited the use of stationery and found that the secretarial services were using more than anyone else (gosh - there's a surprise) so they rationed it. The thing is, if you buy it from a shop it is 6 times cheaper than the NHS supplied stuff.

He did take his own computer monitor in, but by the next morning it had been stolen. Happy days...

GPs are irrelevant btw to the strike

GPs are not irrelevant to the strike! I expect on the strike days most GPs will have a steady stream of disgruntled entitled patients traipsing along to complain about the fact that they've had a routine appointment or procedure cancelled, in addition to their usual stuff. It will be chaotic, but worth it

We fully support our junior doctor colleagues & have all been junior doctors ourselves.

Can nothing be done about consultants in the lucrative sectors running Parallel private practices whilst drawing a generous NHS salary and pension?
Would that not solve the staffing problem fairly quickly?
and also change public attitudes?
no one on x 75000 basic plus a great pension needs a second job surely?
The truth is that we the public do see some extremely wealthy drs. they are probably not the people who tend to do campaigning work I guess...... the ones who bother to fight for the nhs get tarred by the same brush I suppose....

I work In the private sector.

My company did something similar, have everyone a pay rise but took away certain benefits which actually worked out at a 20% pay cut.

I left after 10 years service as did many others.

The government are being dicks

Misstrigg, when a case goes to court and they want an expert witness - who will be called if the only witnesses are NHS registered doctors? If the NHS doctors are forbidden from taking on private work what do you think will happen to those doctors with private practice, do you think they will give up the NHS work?
You have an appointment on the 1 December, would you like to wait until 1 July 2016 and travel thirty miles to your appointment?

Consultants are not allowed to do private practice in their NHS time.
The consultants who tend to have lucrative private practices tend to be surgeons - particularly Gynae/Obs and orthopaedic. If you have an operation done privately you are likely to have it done on a Friday evening.

A lot of consultants don't do private practice. DH certainly wouldn't have had time.

Unpersuaded Ivy

Can nothing be done about consultants in the lucrative sectors running Parallel private practices whilst drawing a generous NHS salary and pension?

Consultants are contracted to the NHS for a certain number of hours per week (and usually do much more unpaid) - if they want to work privately as consultants or do something else in their own time, that's their own business.

Would you allow your employer to restrict what you do in the time that you aren't at work?

Thanks mrscosultant

I wonder what proportion of consultants have private practices.

Presumably not just surgeons

How do they keep up with their nhs work?, or do they reduce their hours?

Unpersuaded by what? You want to get rid of drs and are unpersuaded that the reality will be longer wait for appointments?

Or unpersuaded by the fact that if doctors are made by the NHS to choose between private and NHS they will choice private?

What is it that you don't understand ?

The care we have is readily available to those who are working. It does become expensive for small employers and the self employed. Obamacare is a nightmare and not the way forward. Medicare and Medicaid are programs for the retired and anyone who is low income.

The gap in care is with those who are reliant on obamacare. It's very expensive for the majority of people, often what people do in my area is just pay cash upfront. It works out cheaper. I had CS deliveries and cash price was $30k. It's cheaper to pay upfront plus the fine than to pay for insurance via obamacare.

What most people don't understand about the US system is that income taxation is much lower. Yes we pay hideous amounts of property taxes in certain areas but you can find towns with good schools and low taxes. While you can always find someone with huge amounts of credit card debt you find many more people who are very sensible with their money and have huge amounts in savings. Having $50k in cash in your mid 30s is not unusual. Most people here also save the full amounts for their pension once they hit 30 or their student loans are paid off.

It's a very different system to the UK. It isn't perfect but neither is the NHS. I will say that the standard of care is amazing. The difference isn't in pay but in working conditions IMO.

MrsC, my relative who is a consultant earns many multiples of their annual NHS salary in private work. Now I know our family is exceptional because we tend to work harder than most people and tend to have better qualifications and the family excellence genes etc but even so some doctors do pretty well. I don't of course begrudge them that at all as it's a free market. When medicine becomes a bad deal there will be no sixth formers in my sons' class desperate to get into medicine. They will all be returning to banking again or whatever the high paid career and secure career of the moment might be. My father did private practice too and lost some of his NHS pay as he did that two afternoons and evenings a week. I don't know what the current system is for consultants doing private and other work.

I would not ban strikes generally - they are a good check within a free market but we shall what happens. It was medical students I think who wrote the anti London Underground strike