to feel my sympathy with the French government evaporate?

[Tiivola]

So the French government wants to suspend civil liberties for three months, effectively turning the country into a police state?

And if Francois "this is war" Hollande invokes article 5 of the Nato treaty, the UK could be forced to join in military action in Syria?!

AIBU to think that while I have the greatest possible sympathy with the French people, the French government can go fuck themselves...?

I agree with Tree; civil liberties were hard-won but, as this shows, scarily easily lost.

If you're a daesh fighter, whatever your former 'job', then you're fair game IMO.

As for terrorists residing in Europe - as it would appear Friday's attackers were - its for the security services in Europe to deal with them. I suspect they'll try to go down fighting, in which case they'll probably be killed too, but it will save the cost of trying and incarcerating them.

I feel like this whole ordeal is one not so tiny hope skip and a jump to everyone thinking us Muslims are the same

It is difficult for Joe Average on the street to think anything other than that for the simple reason that all of the worst, most high profile terrorist atrocities over the last 20 years or so have been carried out by Muslim extremists.

Leave it out with the conspiracy theories/NWO crap

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/diplomacy-not-bombs-end-misery-6838743ave just read this article by paddy ashdown, he is ex military, and is no stranger to conflicts. He makes a lot of sense to me how do others feel ?

Thinking about it, if there is now an appetite to engage in a conflict with Isis within Syria/Iraq, sending troops in, eg to support the Kurdish Pashmergas, would be a far better solution than bombing in terms of minimising civilian casualties.

There is an old saying in politics: "Never waste a crisis".

The suspension of civil liberties for 3 months coincides with the duration of the French elections - which Hollande is expected to lose heavily.

The UK is effectively chipping away at civil liberties with its 'snooper's charter' law and no doubt the threat of terrorism will be used here in the UK to bolster the case for that law being implemented over the legitimate concerns of the House of Lords.

Suspending civil liberties is exactly the response the terrorists want. To overturn our freedoms, our liberties and our way of life.

Millepede he's pretty much summaries my views, but he's put it a lot more eloquently than I could, thanks for posting that.

Slaggyisland, your welcome ! I feel the same.

supermanspants
I'm pretty pissed of by your comment because although many terrorists who claim to be muslims ( and can I say that they aren't muslims; islam forbids all this isis terrorism shit). It confirms what I've just said, it ain't so nice to be made shit because some nutter decided to form a terrorist cell falsely in the name of Islam. My neighbours are syrian refugees and their stories of isis are horrendous and they're Muslims. Also can I add many atrocities have occurred around the world and not just because of Muslims.

SLAGGY

juneau just a shame that they are in territories full of terrified civilians, including the enslaved women and children you are so concerned about that you would rain bombs upon.

I guess it comes down to "a" chance and "no" chance.
Did you read or listen to the story of the two scottish girls hiding in a small trapped room under the stage for three hours.

One said something like " it sounds silly but we almost hoped they would blow the place up, because then we would have a chance, a chance to get out of the room we were trapped in".

When something is stuck and locked you need a change in the status quo to have an opening to escape.

This whole things makes me so angry these people that have joined isis are not Muslims as in us people of the Muslim community do not accept them.....gonna go for a brew and a kitkat to cool down...

So what would you do?

Chillyegg it's so frustrating.
Already in Scotland a poor middle-aged couple have been attacked with the man seriously injured. Horrific threats made to the Muslims Students Association at Strathclyde Uni. It's depressing.
It's probably also a good time to repost this:

www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/24/muslim-scholars-islamic-state_n_5878038.html
Islamic scholars doing a take-down of the Isis ideology.

Limbo as per my previous post, if they want to engage militarily with Isis then it needs to be with full co-operation of the rest of the region, and with boots on the ground. Not these endless bombing campaigns that cause more deaths and more hatred.

Suspending civil liberties is exactly the response the terrorists want. To overturn our freedoms, our liberties and our way of life

These comments make me think of smoking and smoking laws.

I am an ex smoker and I was at liberty to smoke, and I enjoyed smoking.
I still very rarely have the odd one.

However my habit made me a prisoner, I had to have cigarettes, I was frequently counting out all the change in the house in a panic to get some before the shop closed. But my smoker friend keeps on about all these laws eroding her liberty. Yet the very act of smoking erorded more of her liberties away.

If I cant walk freely on a street in London without fear of attack I am not free am I?

This is an interesting (and very relevant) read...
www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/01/14/are-all-terrorists-muslims-it-s-not-even-close.html

You are looking for offense Chilly and have completely missed the point of my post in the process.
There is nothing in my comment that is offensive. I am simply trying to suggest why so many view Muslims in the way they do in reponse to YOU stating that there are those who view all Muslims as terrorists.

I feel like words like jihad and martyr are being thrown round and there being falsely used.
The government need to start at home by stopping radicalism and young lads being brain washed by nutters with an agenda.
Aslo can I say it annoys me when people confuse religion and ethnicity people think all Muslims are asian or middle eastern and they're not, yes I'm asian but actually theres a lot of Muslims from lots of different ethnicitit's who are also normal!

I'm not looking for offense at all.
Admittedly I may be projecting my angst from what Islamaphobic slurs I've seen on the Internet and on the media. It's pretty rubbish to be told because of what stranger's have done the rest of normal folk who so happen to be muslims or now also perceived as terrorists

This is also an interesting (if rather dry) read...
www.europol.europa.eu/content/te-sat-2014-european-union-terrorism-situation-and-trend-report-2014

Chilly, it's not "the government's" job to stop "radicalism" and brainwashing. It is the job of the Muslim community, the young men's families (although of course many of them seem to encourage and share their radical views), the imams (mostly be silent since Friday), who should step up and speak out against jihad. I am frankly shocked at the silence from prominent Muslim leaders following the events in Paris.

Pp referred to ISIS as 'impoverished goat-herders'.

They are not impoverished. They have lots of money, from the oil fields they have captured in Iraq and from private funding from Saudi Arabia.

And they are not goat-herders. Unlike Al Quaeda, they are a visible enemy, an army, with modern weapons, fighting a conventional war in Iraq and Syria - as well as terrorist activities outside the region.

Yes. . . Let's blame the government. . . You cannot expect the government to 'stop' radicalisation.... where is personal responsibility? What are families doing? The wider Muslim communities? Schools are now having to undertake training to spot youngsters at risk of being radicalised which is all very well but ultimately it is what these people are accessing on the internet and being fed via external sources that is the issue. How can schools or the government possibly police the movements and actitivities of all young Muslim men and women outside what the security services already do. I do not know enough of how Muslim families faise their children to know the difference between right and wrong so cannot comment on that. What I do know is radicalisation does not happen in a vacuum and unless there are serious limits placed on civil liberties I cannot see how it can be stopped as things stand without increased intervention from Muslim families and communities.

Chiily it is not my intention to get into a bun fight and I can only imagine how hard this must be for you and others within Muslim communities. I am truly sorry that there seems to be a growing number of fucking lunatics who seem hell bent on taking all or us, Mulims included, into a new world order of fear, intolerance and violence. I feel utterly devastated at what happened in Paris and what is likely to come.

Not all Muslims are terrorists but most terrorists are Muslim that's a fact. Non extreme Muslims have the terrorists to thank for the misrepresentation . Quite frankly islamaphobia is often a way to shut down debate. Right now my sympathy s are with the people of France