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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

to not send my girls on this school trip because of my beliefs

942 replies

JustGiveMeTwoMinutes · 13/11/2015 16:39

The trip is to a mosque and the girls (year 3 and 4) have to cover their heads with a scarf, the boys don't have to.

Just to be clear about where I am coming from, this is about a specific practice which I believe is discriminatory and therefore disagree with. I would not choose myself to enter a building that I could only enter if I wore particular clothes but where that requirement was limited to one gender or one group defined by arbitrary characteristics. I would be happy to cover my head as a sign of respect/tradition if everyone entering the building was required to do so.

They can make their own decision on this when they are adults.

Am I being ridiculous and petty or is it reasonable to stand up for my view that just because a custom is part of a religion that does not excuse it being discriminatory?

OP posts:
Brioche201 · 13/11/2015 18:05

There was a huge hoohaa about this at my DC's school.One of the parents rang the mosque direct and got a completely different message.they said normal unadaptedf school uniform was fine the only thing they were bothered about were shoes.

MyNewBearTotoro · 13/11/2015 18:05

I went on a similar trip to a synagogue in primary school. The boys were all given a kippah to wear, I was most put out none of the girls got to wear one.

If it genuinely goes against your beliefs then don't send your children. I don't think it's a big deal, I can't imagine many girls getting upset at having to cover their heads (assuming no SN) but if you think they won't be able to respect the religious expectations it's probably best they don't attend.

MrsUltra · 13/11/2015 18:06

YANBU - if more people took a principled stand against sex discrimination it would benefit women of all races and religions.

JoeMommuh · 13/11/2015 18:06

Yanbu at all

Your daughters shouldn't be made to feel like second class citizens or that their hair is something rude or suggestive to be covered up

cailindana · 13/11/2015 18:07

'I think you should learn a bit more about Islam, before dismissing it's traditions.

Then I think you should learn a bit more about the crap Muslim women have to put up with because of attitudes like yours.

I've worn hijab for over 10 years, I've never had any problems with Muslims men, but the abuse and nastiness from some non-Muslims has been horrendous.'

If we met in person I would have nothing but respect for you and I would be very very keen to learn about Islam (although I already know a fair bit about it.)

But I will absolutely never accept any practice that marks me or my daughter out as separate to men, simply because we are women.

If all muslims wore the hijab I would happily wear it. Because it is only for women, I would never wear it. I will not accept a practice that sees me as a vagina first and a person second. NEVER.

Pantone363 · 13/11/2015 18:10

Every time DDs school did the mosque trip this issue came up.

Then the mosque banned women altogether so no more trips. Problem solved. Sort of Hmm

Mummamayhem · 13/11/2015 18:10

Allowing her to participate and have the experience of covering her hair will not condemn her to a subordinate life of sexual discrimination. It will promote discussion where you can share your views with her.

Come off it, if she were in a Christian church would you ask her to remove her hat (and then boys) even if it was a really cold day because it shows respect.

There is too much fear of difference there are women who are highly educated and independent who cover their hair...equally those who shave it all off!!

Hatethis22 · 13/11/2015 18:12

I love all the people saying that women cover their hair out of choice and then in the same breath that the OP's daughter should cover her hair and go on the trip.

cailindana · 13/11/2015 18:13

This situation is not being presented as a choice. The girls are being instructed to cover their hair, the boys are not.

derxa · 13/11/2015 18:14

The OP hasn't said if she has a daughter or not.
The more visits like this we have the better. We need to learn about others' cultures/religion. I took a party of children to a synagogue. It was the first time I'd ever met Jewish people ever. It left me feeling that Christians had more similarities than differences. Similarly when I taught in a school with almost 100% Muslim children.

Hatethis22 · 13/11/2015 18:15

To be fair, all organised religion is misogynist.

Sunnyminimalist2 · 13/11/2015 18:15

I think she could gain a lot from the experience of visiting a mosque. What she would gain experience understanding wise would outweigh the sexism aspect for me.

Mehitabel6 · 13/11/2015 18:15

When in Rome.........................

Hatethis22 · 13/11/2015 18:15

'It was the first time I'd ever met Jewish people ever'

Where the hell do you live? Shock

cailindana · 13/11/2015 18:16

I am happy to learn about other religions derxa. I am not happy to engage in practices that I consider misogynistic and I will not give respect to a religion that does not respect me.

StompyFreckles · 13/11/2015 18:17

I also knew that this thread would be about a visit to a mosque before opening it.
I am also very surprised to hear that the girls are being asked to cover their heads - very unusual

Sunnyminimalist2 · 13/11/2015 18:17

I see it as respecting tradition. I don't agree with girls being treated differently but it's not like she is converting to a religion. She is there to observe, learn and reflect

MaudGonneMad · 13/11/2015 18:17

Title of th OP mentioned 'my girls' - reasonable to suppose the OP has a daughter.

cailindana · 13/11/2015 18:18

That is true Hatethis. I will teach my children about religions but I won't expect them to observe the rituals.

To add if my daughter converted to Islam and covered her head I would support her. But I would still never cover my head no matter what the circumstances.

derxa · 13/11/2015 18:19

*'It was the first time I'd ever met Jewish people ever'

Where the hell do you live? shock*

Rural Scotland. East Hertfordshire.

Mistigri · 13/11/2015 18:20

YANBU as far as the principle goes, though in practice I'd it were my child, I would probably shrug, tell my daughter that religions often have strange rules and practices that I don't personally agree with, and let her go if she wanted.

Would very young girls be expected to cover their heads anyway?

We have an interesting opposite issue here - there is a complete ban on any religious symbols in state schools, so when the girls are in the (open) courtyard between lessons they are not allowed to cover their heads against the rain using a woolly scarf. Which is a bit silly, because wearing a headscarf against the weather is cultural not religious, but I suppose it means that the rules are seen to be fair to all.

hampsterdam · 13/11/2015 18:20

Yanbu. Some of the arguments are just silly. So most muslim women get to choose If they cover or not? Lovely stuff but these girls are not being given the choice.
Boys being made to cover in a Jewish temple would be exactly the same. Op doesn't have ds In that senario she has 2 dd being told they must cover their heads when boys don't have to.
Taking off shoes is fine as everyone will do it.
Nobody has to respect other people's beliefs,only their to right to believe them. Big difference.
I would get clarification that they will need to be covered. I would probably let mine go and have a conversation about it.

megletthesecond · 13/11/2015 18:23

I wouldn't be keen either. If boys and girls covered their heads it wouldn't bother me, but if it's only the girls I'd possibly refuse. Even religion shouldn't get a free pass for discrimination.

(Am a half arsed c of e who goes to church a few times a year but don't believe the bible).

Hatethis22 · 13/11/2015 18:24

I forget how uniformly WASP a lot of the UK is.

HubertsBirthdayStick · 13/11/2015 18:24

Id rather die than go to a mosque and cover my hair.

YADNBU