to not send my girls on this school trip because of my beliefs

[JustGiveMeTwoMinutes]

The trip is to a mosque and the girls (year 3 and 4) have to cover their heads with a scarf, the boys don't have to.

Just to be clear about where I am coming from, this is about a specific practice which I believe is discriminatory and therefore disagree with. I would not choose myself to enter a building that I could only enter if I wore particular clothes but where that requirement was limited to one gender or one group defined by arbitrary characteristics. I would be happy to cover my head as a sign of respect/tradition if everyone entering the building was required to do so.

They can make their own decision on this when they are adults.

Am I being ridiculous and petty or is it reasonable to stand up for my view that just because a custom is part of a religion that does not excuse it being discriminatory?

Precisely Kitten.

I've gone into mosques to pray during prayer times, had non muslim friends with me and they came in and sat and waited in the prayer hall next to me whilst I quickly prayed. Nobody batted an eyelid, not the guy at reception, not the pople coming in to pray, nobody.

And that according to my experience is exactly the way it is in mosques.

This thread is depressing.

I did get my boys to take hats off this summer in a church. A reflex action on my part but I would have felt rude to have not done it. We were guests who had chosen to visit. I was brought up to respect other people's religion. Lived in a sectarian area and it was drummed into me as both ethical and a safety measure! And yes some parents would not have allowed a trip to the other side's church.

Then again OP is well within her rights to say she doesn't want her daughters to experience this trip.

Having grown up in the Church of England Andrew I wasn't aware of any rule which required men to remove their hats. Perhaps our Vicar was just very accommodating and accepting.

Jeez I just mean get all children taking about and discussing difference! Not avoiding it or fearing it

It seems to me the biggest fear on show here is that of either men, unable to control themselves round womens hair or womens hair feared as so inciting it could produce lust.

The problem here is that being female is not a protected characteristic, in the way that race or religion is. So it's okay to discriminate against us, apparently.

Er, not true. Sex (being male or female) is a protected characteristic, just as Race and religion or belief are protected characteristics.

cailindana Some of the more far-out Jewish groups expect men and women to segregate themselves so as not to tempt each other, which I suppose you could call equal-opps bigotry!

Maybe it is written down, but I can assure you I have never heard that males are expected to have their heads uncovered, and I have been in a lot of churches and cathedrals. I have also been at Xmas services that are cold where males have worn hats, nobody said anything.

YABU, it is an educational experience and to see other cultures

I cant imagine anyone being happy with dc taken out of school to visit an example of apartheid. esp if the context was that it was OK becasue its this particular culture that follows it!

SirChenjin Perhaps I am just out of date! I am '52 vintage and when I was a lad men and boys uncovered as they entered a church as a matter of course - and that was when far more men, and of course most boys at schools, wore a hat or a cap than these days.

Haven't read whole thread
YANBU (assuming it is really true that they have to cover their heads?)

And I must be honest, I would really like it if people made a stand against this sort of thing more often. I understand it is hard to make decisions on behalf of your child, but sometimes it has to be done and you have to decide what is right.

I would not enter a place that said I should cover my head when a man doesn't have to. Therefore I would love it if you upheld that belief.

if they are happy to welcome all visitors, then I am afraid I believe that should include female visitors who do not wish to cover their heads because they require equal treatment to men.

I hope you will post again and tell us what you decide.

Yanbu OP. There is enough sexism in the world that you can't avoid exposing kids to...there is no need to add optional sexism on top.

On the other hand you should be a LOT more worried about sexism in school uniforms...because dressing girls and boys differently for school EVERYDAY and having teachers treat them differently purely on gender in part because the uniforms over-emphasize difference that isn't there is going to be a MUCH bigger problem for your kids.

Sex is a protected characteristic, but religions have exemptions.

Right, Andrew. So on that basis you don't see a rule that requires women to cover up for fear that men might attack them as misogynistic?

'Muslim girls are supposed to cover from puberty, and its actually obligatory for muslim parents to encourage their girls and boys to dress modestly before puberty in preparation and sinful on them if they do not'

Ah.

Didn't realize it was actually obligatory

Brenda "And especially after that bloody stupid 'sweet' campaign that implies that 'uncovered' = 'dirty."

what was this, please?

blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/05/labour-stays-silent-over-gender-segregation-at-party-rally

Er, not true. Sex (being male or female) is a protected characteristic, just as Race and religion or belief are protected characteristics.

see above.

Imagine that being black and white.

blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/05/labour-stays-silent-over-gender-segregation-at-party-rally/

^ this.

in this day and age and in modern britain!

You know what, the scarf is one thing.

But it's that look of total fear in most Muslim women's eyes that really angers me.

The guys don't look like that.

why is it exciting to see women segreated kATIE

I think YABVU,I'm a Christian and my children have celebrated all different kinds of religious festivals.They've visited all different places of worship.

I was always raised to have the upmost respect for other religions and our children are being raised the same way.Myself,DH and all 5DC have friends with all different types of faith.

I think standing up against someone elses traditions and faiths is very disrespectful.

Lorelei, There was huge viral distribution of this poster campaign from Iran and other countries

troubleatmillcock ahahahahahaha
That is the funniest and most stupid thing I heard in a long while...really don't know if I should laugh or cry.

cailindana Applied day in day out in the family and the work place, yes. Expected as a courtesy from a one-off visitor, no.

As previous poster said these so called educational visits are nothing more than indoctrination sessions. There is zero chance that I would let my young daughters be part of a visit to,any religious organisation or building which required them to cover their heads. All such religious rules are nothing but archaic nonsense designed to keep women in their place.