About being "proud of your roots"

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I was just idly reading about Dermot O'Leary being "extremely proud of his Irish roots" (his parents are from Ireland, I believe, though he grew up in England). It suddenly struck me how weird I think that whole concept is.
Is it not just as absurd as someone being "ashamed"of their "roots"? How can they be a cause for either pride or shame?

I wonder if "your roots" means more to people who have been uprooted - whether through immigration, moving even to just a different area, moving from your background, your class status etc.

I think it can be easy to be a bit conflicted when you are split between different countries and cultures etc, especially if it is quite different and your culture/religion or whatever perhaps not quite fully accepted. Being a well off expat for a few years probably doesn't count in the same way.

Maybe those who have stayed rooted, haven't moved much but stay close and with the people they've known and in the same class just don't feel it the same way. There is less conflict, less clash, no country left behind or way of life.

Really English are on the receiving end or just now too are being ridiculed and criticised and questioned for past actions

kitty, I think that is similar with the Scots and Welsh. Probably any group that is smaller and has felt marginalised and threatened.

Don't understand what you mean EnthusiasmDisturbed

Is where you're from not part of who you are SirChenjin?

Part of you - in what way? And what do you mean by 'where you're from'?

I think English identity has become a bit confused because it's so subsumed by Britishness. You go to Glasgow Airport and along with all the usual UKVI signs, you get millions of Welcome to Scotland stuff. You go to Heathrow and it's Welcome to Britain.

England is a fascinating country, with such rich history, so many diverse traditions in all the different regions but it markets itself to the rest of the world as basically London and Britain. You see the Union Jack a lot more than you see the St George's Cross and I genuinely think that is what has allowed arseholes like the EDL to use it as currency. In Scotland you see Saltires and Lion Rampants everywhere. Same in Wales with the Welsh flag.

I think that actively trying to stand out in the Union is a part of why people often express pride in being Scottish or Welsh more than they do English because there's a sense that England doesn't want to stand out, it's happy to identify mainly as British. That's just my observation as a Scot who finds England a very interesting and lovely place.

Yes bambam that makes sense to me.

I don't think those sentiments are anti any other nationality though for most people. I am proud of my Irishness but certainly not anti English or anyone else.

In Scotland you see Saltires and Lion Rampants everywhere

That is true - but outside of sporting events they have been hijacked by the SNP and nationalists sadly.

True, SirChenjin, they carry meanings now that I don't think they did half as much pre-referendum. I am pretty worried about how Scotland is relating to England these days. I was at a dinner recently, talking to an English couple who told me that lots of English people feel more than ever that the Scots hate them. I told them that only fuckwits would hate them for being English but when you get folk like MIL taking everything as a slight 'by the English' against Scotland it's easy to see why they feel like that.

I genuinely don't believe that most SNP voters or yes voters are anti-English because I know very few people who are and almost everyone I know voted yes/SNP. But it's like being anti-English has become OK because it's part of a 'progressive' movement. I'm all for independence if it's the best, healthiest thing for Scotland but I fucking hate the SNP. And Nicola Sturgeon's office never answered any of the emails I sent

my roots are a big, north western european mess so i don't really know who to identify with. I kinda envy people who are of just one nationality or culture.

Absolutely agree Agent - although I think there is a core of anti-English nationalist voters sadly.

I hate the SNP with a passion (I'm quite vociferous about it on here ) but to fair to them - Kezie and Ruth never answered my email either

I'm not sure where my roots actually are, Paternal grandparents were Irish/French and maternal grandparents were Lithuanian / Spanish. I was born and brought up in Scotland but spent many years in Middle East and south east Asia

sir
Now living in Lanarkshire, which is more culturally enlightening than the Middle East!

lastuser "my roots are a big, north western european mess so i don't really know who to identify with."

okay, you tempted me back. Why does it matter? Why do you need to choose to identify with a particular group? Guessing you're an adult and have chosen to be where you are now, so wouldn't that place be more of an "identifying" factor than anything else?

"okay, you tempted me back. Why does it matter? Why do you need to choose to identify with a particular group? Guessing you're an adult and have chosen to be where you are now, so wouldn't that place be more of an "identifying" factor than anything else?"

I doubt most people do choose, most just stay put with what they know. Also, many places and people won't let you "identify" - it can take a long time to be accepted, sometimes generations, if ever. I've lived And spent time in a few different countries. You often aren't accepted, not as one of them.

Now living in Lanarkshire, which is more culturally enlightening than the Middle East!

Is it really though - honestly?

I absolutely 'get' what you mean lorelei - my family and DH's family have moved around a lot (his abroad and the UK, mine in UK) - the idea of 'coming from' anywhere and having roots which define you doesn't chime at all.

Speaking from experience roots are important, not necessarily to identify yourself but to look for traits that may be apparent in yourself and to pass knowledge down to your children.
Also speaking from experience they may not seem important until you actually find them and not knowing anything of your roots isn't good.
It's like something huge is missing from your life.

I am british and my parents and GPs were. And in the uk we are lucky enough to have birth and death records going back decades so I don't need to ponder my past, can research it if I want.

However if I was American I would wonder about family and when and why they moved to the US - so I think it's an issue if you don't know your roots.

You only need to go back a few generations when life was v hard, hand to mouth existence. That could make you feel proud - that yours survived against the odds, or you wouldn't be here! Even the rich and privileged risked disease, poor health care.

Is there such a thing as englishness, it's more yorks, lancs, birmingham, geordie etc isn't it? Similar in Scotland imo, we aren't really united.

Are the Irish more family orientated than other nationalities? So being forced to leave family to seek work abroad is a loss, hence the need to keep in touch and pride in their home. Whereas in other countries seeking work away from home signifies success and achievement. There's pride in leaving to go out into the world, not in going back/keeping in touch.

I feel English rather than British but that may be because my dh is Scottish and I have to put up with their overt scottish pride.

"gay pride? Maybe because it used to be illegal and unacceptable. They would be shamed, locked up, shunned (still are and even killed some paces). They are what they are and they refuse to be ashamed - so make a statement about it and celebrate that they can now, I suppose"

A good answer, IMHO. Same goes for roots when people are discriminated against.

Lickystar1

If you are so 'Irish' why do you not live in Ireland?? I have never understood that. Why do you go on and on about being Irish but not live there?

If you feel that strongly about Ireland and being Irish why the heck are you not living in Ireland?

Maybe it's not quite as good as you believe hence why so many Irish seek a better life elsewhere.

Can't have your cake and eat it???

When Americans say "I'm Irish" or 'I'm Scottish," it's short for Irish-American, etc. We are all hyphenated or double-barelled Americans. I know I'm not Scottish, but I do have a Scottish surname and I know the name of the ship my 6-times great-grandfather sailed on when he left the Hebridean island that had been his family's home for generations.

As a previous poster said, "proud" is not really the right word. But I am certainly interested in my family history and the cultures from which we came. But I also have a particular interest in history, especially social history, and family history is a natural part of that.

Atenco - so does that follow that only people who were discriminated against are 'allowed' (for want of a better word) to feel proud of their roots? What happens if that country was also responsible for various atrocities, both to its own citizens or abroad? Or isn't discriminated against in other parts of the world?

I'm Irish and I lived in the UK for a long time. I get what Dermot means. There are so many default assumptions about the Irish and basically the thinking in the UK is that it's just better, classier, luckier, more privileged to be English. When I was in the UK I did feel like making the point occasionally that there's more to being Irish than the UK's perception of Irish. 'We' have our own sense of self and it's strong and not shaped by the English perception of us. Although sometimes that can frustrate.
Now I'm back in Ireland I'm neither proud nor ashamed, I just fit in and that's so comfortable.

Do you mean England when you say UK? Or do feel the whole of the UK discriminates against every Irish person, and somehow feels superior?