About being "proud of your roots"

[CleansingSurfaceWipe]

I was just idly reading about Dermot O'Leary being "extremely proud of his Irish roots" (his parents are from Ireland, I believe, though he grew up in England). It suddenly struck me how weird I think that whole concept is.
Is it not just as absurd as someone being "ashamed"of their "roots"? How can they be a cause for either pride or shame?

'Although as we'll all be dead at our funerals we'll never actually know what sort of send off we'll really get'

Exactly Sir, so why be bothered about it?

I don't think it's pride as such, I think people are focussing in that word and missing the point. I think it's refusing to be ashamed of where you are from whether it is country, class, religion etc - especially if where you are from etc has meant that others will judge you or possibly look down on you. There are so many stereotypes about this things, often negatively

That's a very sensible way of looking at it, Bambini, I like that a lot.

I agree with bambini my mum is constantly judged - when I mention my mum is Polish or my mum is asked where she is from they call her a job robber etc. My mum is a consultant she isn't exactly robbing a job she worked very very hard to get where she is today and the majority of the people that do say it have no intention of having a job!

I've never experienced direct judging just ignorance. I think it's very hard to understand how frustrating and annoying that ignorance can be unless you experience it. How you grow up and the world you come to understand as a child is very much part of who you are and if people sneer at that it is a personal insult. Hence taking pride and not letting those insults get to you.

It was really lovely actually at a work event recently when I was at dinner with a group of people, some of whom I knew and others I didn't. A few asked me things about Ireland, listened to the answers and didn't make a joke. That is really really rare.

scremersford Ingrigued at the poster's Yorkshire grandmother who doesn't consider herself English!
It's my aunt, and she does on the whole, but because of coming from a immigrant family, things like the council , e.g the establishment are "English".

I'm not bothered about it - what makes you think I was?

Bambini - I like that too. Not being ashamed of who you are rather than being proud of where you or your parents happened to come from (which is a misnomer - very few of us are from one place, we're a mix from over the millenia) is a more meaningful and appropriate way of looking at it imo.

"Surely most people would prefer people to be present at their send off, irrespective of its form? That's not a cultural preference, that's basic human need to feel they are loved and will be missed."

Because you said this ^ The fact you said most people would prefer it and it was a basic human need gave me a clue that you might care about it a little bit. You do realise that I can see what you wrote and that claiming you haven't said things doesn't work?

I said that in response to your point about cultural preferences and the bit about between just being cremated with no one present or having a funeral of some kind.

And enough of the sarky comments.

I think we've lost each other SirChenjin.

Indeed.

Fascinating thread. I was born in Ireland, Irish parents, lived there until I was 20. I've lived in Britain for 15 years and am a British citizen and consider myself to be British. This is my home, where I belong, where I feel like myself. I feel almost no connection to Ireland and rarely visit. When I do, I feel like an outsider and I'm fine with that. I've rarely had a native British person express any interest in my Irish heritage and certainly no negative comments ( not doubting other people's stories by the way).

I don't feel proud to be British, but I do feel incredibly lucky and grateful to be living in this country and at this time in history

cailin "Lorelei, would you personally consider the choice between just being cremated with no one present or having a funeral of some kind to be a neutral one, as in you're not bothered which one happens?"

I'm completely mystified by this question. 1) what has that do with any culture? 2) why is it "cremation" with no one present as opposed to "burial" - or are you now going to say you missed out that option?

If I got hit by a bus tomorrow, the thought of any funeral being conducted in the absence of my friends is rather odd, yes. But if I died at 90 and friends were mostly dead or just really sick of going to funerals - my poor father has been to so many this year, he says he doesn't like answering the phone because it's always bad news, and one of his mates now refuses to go to any more funerals - then maybe it's better if the authorities just arrange the burial/cremation with no fuss. I don't know. "It depends" is the answer.

I have heard of funerals where some attendees have felt better after the event, but I can't say that's ever happened to me. The loss has been too much. It's normally later that you see a photo or something and you hear a song and then that moment is much more valuable in the recovery process than the funeral.

may I ask why you've asked the question you've asked, especially the way you've asked it?

You said you were neutral about many things given you're an atheist. I was asking if you're neutral about funerals or if you attach some importance to them.

My parents are a real mix, one side is very "establishment" that I am not very proud of - the other side is east end descended from Eastern European Romany's - I feel very proud of that part of my heritage!

Calindala "You said you were neutral about many things given you're an atheist. I was asking if you're neutral about funerals or if you attach some importance to them."

what an odd way of asking the question. Now you've phrased it more directly, no, I don't attach importance to them.

So you would be ok with no one attending your cremation, or with no one turning up for the cremation of a loved one?

cailin - as I said in my previous reply - if I got hit by a bus tomorrow and my mates didn't turn up to an event organised by my folks, yes, I would find that a bit strange... but yes, I would be okay with it. I'd be less okay if in 20 years time, they had forgotten the stories of Lorelei...the bits that live on.

I wouldn't mind no one being there for the funeral of a loved one. To some extent, I'd prefer it. I dread having to deal with a (religious) funeral for my folks, that's going to be horrific in fact. Loss, dealing with a bunch of religion and dealing with a bunch of people. Shudder just thinking of it.

I have a 93 year old much loved neighbour who will likely just have someone push the button with no one else present - family all dead, friends all dead bar the younger neighbours.

But I know what song I will sing to remember her, so whether I'm there, whether the other neighbours are there, doesn't matter. She's an atheist as well btw.

btw why do you keep saying "cremation"?

What's wrong with saying cremation?

My parents are a real mix, one side is very "establishment" that I am not very proud of - the other side is east end descended from Eastern European Romany's - I feel very proud of that part of my heritage!

But why sidalee? I do notice that people tend to feel proud of the parts of their ancestry that sounds more interesting or romantic. Is that it?

Cailin, there's nothing wrong with it, I just thought you were assuming "cremation" rather than "burial".

Bearing in mind we're talking about funerals generally, I'm puzzled by what looks like an assumption that myself and all my loved ones would be cremated and none would be buried.

No I wasn't. I thought you'd said earlier you'd opt for a cremation, maybe I got that wrong.

Cailin - as well as asking about my funeral, you were asking about the funerals of loved ones...so I was wondering how or why you could assume that all my loved ones would be cremated. Even if I am cremated, how could you know what they will have? You did specificially say "So you would be ok with no one attending your cremation, or with no one turning up for the cremation of a loved one?"

Most of the funerals I've been to thus far have been burials. I said earlier that I don't think people will get a choice due to lack of space. OTOH I like the idea of a burial plot but OTOH there's a major practical issue there.

I didn't mean to assume anything - I should have said cremation/burial.