About being "proud of your roots"

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I was just idly reading about Dermot O'Leary being "extremely proud of his Irish roots" (his parents are from Ireland, I believe, though he grew up in England). It suddenly struck me how weird I think that whole concept is.
Is it not just as absurd as someone being "ashamed"of their "roots"? How can they be a cause for either pride or shame?

Cailin. I see. Still mystified about the funeral with people or without people being connected to "roots" or "culture" - what are your thoughts there? Do you feel that some people want people in attendance due to "culture" or "roots"?

A funeral is a cultural practice and cultures celebrate them differently. A wish for a certain way of celebrating your life is based on your cultural ideas about honouring people, love friendship etc.

cailin "A wish for a certain way of celebrating your life is based on your cultural ideas about honouring people, love friendship etc."

so your take on me not really knowing or not being terribly fussed is...?

I think I'm really struggling with the term "cultural" being shoved in there. It suggests very specific ideas.... am I the only one who feels this? (AIBU?!!) I don't have a one set way of honouring people. I think people should have what they want for their funerals. I think your DH should leave his body to science if that's what he wants.

Does anyone remember the episode of S&TC where Lexi dies and someone says "This funeral is better than Fashion Week"? There was a time I wanted that funeral. Now I don't. And life is a funny thing, it can be quite roller coaster like, so while I am unbothered now, maybe when I'm 70 I'll be running a London literary salon and I'll want the Fashion Week funeral again. Who knows? I'll be retired. I might have the energy to do cocktail bar circuits again instead of sitting home on MN on a Friday night. How could we know what will happen? The only way I can see to know that is to have some sort of specific cultural alignment....which goes back to my point about it seeming quite narrow and specific. I never talk about "my" culture because I don't have one - unless we're making North vs South London jokes and they are just jokes. (Don't tell the Saaf Londoners I said that).

Though my children were born in England, they don't see themselves as English. They are very proud of their Welsh and Northern Irish heritage.

They think of themselves as European.

Having said that I will ever return to live in the place were I was born unless it's the really lovely street.

Once a person dies, all that has to be done is to dispose of the body. The fact a funeral is held at all is a cultural thing - it's to do with how we as a society deal with death. That doesn't mean there's only one type of funeral, it means that how you see death and deal with it will be informed by what you've experienced in your culture. You wanted the Lexi funeral because that's what you saw in your culture, which was informed by American TV.

There's no such things as 'just jokes' - jokes are the cornerstones of culture and you've identified two cultures in your locality, one that you identify with and one that you see as friendly rivals. What I'm saying is that you are steeped in what you experience and that's part of who you are.

Cailin "You wanted the Lexi funeral because that's what you saw in your culture, which was informed by American TV."

no, the Lexi funeral translates across all cultures - the same principle would apply in any country! The statement "this funeral is better than Fashion Week" is saying "all the movers and shakers are here". That could be just as true in India or Mexico or New Zealand.

And you have made that assumption about "what I saw in my culture of American TV" - whereas really I wanted that funeral because in those days I wanted to build a career like my dad's, a career which would make me influential in the way Lexi was an A list party girl. Because dad knows whole damn town. He doesn't even live in London any more and I get people stopping me in pubs saying "oh you're xx daughter!"

So you see, you have already extrapolated and made a bizarre assumption. And S&TC is about as far from American TV as possible - especially at the time - but that's whole separate conversation. (If HBO hadn't made it, no one would have).

you say "jokes are the cornerstones of culture". I'm still not sure how we are defining culture, but are they? In the case of Norf vs Saaf, it's just a stupid thing we say. To me a "cornerstone of culture" would be something that had real intention behind it and major impact. Like "when the wind blows" or "Cathy come home" or some such.

You seem to be seeing culture as a defined set of rules, specific to one place. I see culture as anything that is part of your social structure and that includes all the tv programmes you and your peers watched, no matter what country they're from or how many other people watched them. It includes the music you listened to, from Spice girls to ACDC, magazines you read, anything that built up your social understanding and your shared meaning with other people.

Norf vs Saaf is not a stupid thing you say, it's a shared understanding between particular people that has a whole lot of meaning for you but not much for me because it's not part of my culture.

Cailin "What I'm saying is that you are steeped in what you experience and that's part of who you are."

this I understand. I don't agree with it for everybody, I can't speak on behalf of others. But you said earlier that people can't abandon their culture and join new ones - sure they can, immigrants do that all the time. Many people do it every day if they shake off a family who have horrible beliefs.

The original question here was about "roots". When people accept my roots are in London, yes, fine, I'm a product of my "roots". But the OP was talking specifically - I thought - about "origins" and I find it bizarre that anyone wants to take on the good, the bad, of what people in the past and possibly even different countries have done, just because of a bloodline or family connection. I also don't understand the popularity of that "Who do you think you are" programme. I know who I am. Finding out who was doing what in my family in the 1700s isn't going to change anything about the person I am today.

Of course, if someone has mislaid several millions and it's rightfully owed to me, I'm interested but seems unlikely

'But you said earlier that people can't abandon their culture and join new ones - sure they can, immigrants do that all the time'

I disagree. I know a lot of immigrants and every single one of them struggles to some extent with understanding and accepting a new culture. That's not to say they don't thrive, or enjoy it but for every immigrant there are things that always tie them to wear they were born, even if it's just an accent and a way of expressing themselves.

Cailin "You seem to be seeing culture as a defined set of rules, specific to one place." Ah, I thought you were saying that! And I think many people don't define "cultural influence" as "everything you've ever been exposed to". I get a lot of - "Lorelei's mum's "culture" from another country, must define Lorelei."

cailin "but for every immigrant there are things that always tie them to wear they were born, even if it's just an accent and a way of expressing themselves."

you can't speak for "every" immigrant.

That's why I said every single immigrant I know experiences difficulties. I am speaking from personal experience.

and then in your next sentence you said "but for every immigrant." Now if you meant all the ones you know, sure.

I'm bowing out now, thanks for chatting, it's been interesting.

Yes that's what I meant. Goodnight.

@ifnotnowwhenever - I think it's a loving the underdog thing.

The establishment very upright Britishness, totally conservative and perhaps elitist part I feel no empathy for if you see what I mean?

Whereas the eastender immigrants had to really fight poverty/snobbery/bad education to become educated and have good careers.

how it's easier to not understand cultural pride if you are part of the white indigenous majority

Hmm, the white indigenous majority, indigenous but not homogenous.

The regions of Britain have varied customs/ dialects/ beliefs/ traditions.

This incomers v natives is not straightforward as the natives are a varied bunch themselves.

Do you mean Britishness or Englishness sidalee? Genuine question btw - not trying to pick you up on anything

So if we cannot be proud of anything that isn't a personal acheivement, how come gays can hold a gay pride parade?

Pride in one's roots is a major arm against being down-trodden and discriminated against

Because they are proud to be gay - i.e. who they are, as opposed to proud simply to be born in a certain place, or have parents/grandparents who were born in a certain place.

It seems that more often and not the English are on the receiving end of insults and criticism. Why?

Are they?

Is where you're from not part of who you are SirChenjin?

gay pride? Maybe because it used to be illegal and unacceptable. They would be shamed, locked up, shunned (still are and even killed some paces). They are what they are and they refuse to be ashamed - so make a statement about it and celebrate that they can now, I suppose.

I think the Irish being proud of being Irish may be to do with politics. In Northern Ireland (where I live) nationalists are proud of their Irishness as they want to be politically part of Ireland.

The Republic of Ireland (where I grew up) is a very young nation- less than a hundred years old as an independent nation. This is within living memory for some people and will certainly have had an impact on attitudes.

Despite totally understanding the logic that it's an accident of birth, I do feel proud of being Irish, while not being strongly nationalist in other ways.