to think that this 'transsexual' Jesus play should not get public funding?

[whatwilltheythinkofnext]

I would say 'no words' but how about "disgusting, insulting, disrespectful, immoral..." need I go on? How does this awful thing get 'public funding' - I'd be demanding a refund of my council tax. Enough already!

Well that story says to me that if you do not see Jesus in the young girls, the disabled person, the old and frail, the vulnerable and dispossessed, then you do not see Jesus at all.

It is a parable of sorts.

A metaphor, and tells us that we cannot love Jesus if we do not ;ove the vulnerable and dispossessed.

it is not a story about Christ on a work trip to Africa dressing up in a series of disguises in order to offend Christians.

And maybe gay people, transgendered people, see themselves knocking on the African woman's door.

Metaphor, fiction, art...

Actually Christ used that a lot. In the parables.

In the Bible.

The parables are the basis for a good way to live - I say that as an atheist.

"attention-seeking inadequate."

Strawberry, what is the central message of the Gospel? Why did Jesus come to Earth and die on the cross? What message did He preach over and over again?

When you know the answers to these questions do come back because I will be really interested to know what else you could possibly need to know about the Son of God that you feel could only be gleaned from this play.

The 'that is all you or I need to know' is the kind of thing organised religion has used for centuries as a tool to keep people stupid and obedient. I am glad we live in a world where we can question, challenge and think for ourselves. Blind obedience is never a good thing - not even blind obedience to a deity.

And referring to a playwright with a strong faith as 'an attention-seeing inadequate' once again exposes you for the kind of person you are, Faberge - not the kind of Christian I would want to know.

Jesus was not liberal. Far from it.

Was he not being liberal when he advocated looking after the poor and sick, when he talked about the difficulty of rich men in going to heaven, when he told the parallel of the Good Samaritan, when he told us not to judge, when he said "But whoever has this world’s goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?", when he cast out the money-changers, and when he told us to love our neighbours?

When do you say he was illiberal,Faberge?

"for the benefit of some attention-seeking inadequate."

Are you talking about the trans gender playwright? Or her audience? Or anyone who does not take all their information and inspiration from the Bible?

what is the central message of the Gospel?

I'd like to know why the central message of the Gospel, or any message of the Gospel, should be taken as an authority on any subject.

Any book can make claims.

You are right, Brenda, we are commanded to live one another. How does this conflate to a transsexual misgendering the Son of God in order to make sense of his own sense of inadequacy. Why does Jesus have to mirror Crawford? He is God.

Faberge - are you seriously saying that you believe that Christ would have turned a trans gendered person from his door as an 'inadequate'??

The hateful and intolerant gits currently causing misery and mayhem in Paris are not Christian. The Christians on this thread do not demonstrate hatefulness or intolerance.

So what? The killers in Paris certainly weren't following the teachings of Mohammed either. And I take it that you don't claim that no Christian has ever demonstrated hatefulness or intolerance?

I once read a story (years ago so can't ref) about Jesus visiting an African village. Briefly, a woman invites him to spend christmas with her.

"You're a long way from Israel, lad, fancy coming to our house for Crimbo?"
"Ooh goody, it's also my birthday that day!"
"It never is!"
"Yeah - 25th December. Of all the days, eh?"
"Bet you get a lot of joint Christmas and birthday presents do you?"
"Ohhh yeah all the time. It fucking SUCKS."
"Ok, well you pop round tomorrow then. I'm doing a nice turkey and sprouts."
"Great. Be sure to let in any random strangers that come round before me, just in case I'm in disguise."
"Will do!"

Gruntled, those things do not a liberal make. Did Jesus not also tell the prostitute about to be stoned, 'Go.. and sin no more'?

"And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

You don't sound like much of a Christian, FabergeEgg

So what is illiberal about suggesting someone shouldn't sin again?

You sound like my XH. Which is only one reason why he's my XH. On that note, are you pissed or on something?

It was adultery in the King James Version and he stopped the stoning because He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

forchina

"for the benefit of some attention-seeking inadequate."

I was talking about the author. Not the kindliest of things to say, admittedly, but they have left me feeling decidedly unkind.

Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

Jesus is commanding us to love everybody - right down to the 'lowest of the low'. How does this conflate to: 'Thou shalt write plays focussing on my sexual nature. Verily I say unto thee, thou canst cast me as a transsexual if thou shouldst want. I do not care as I didn't really have much of a message to spread anyway.'

So what? The killers in Paris certainly weren't following the teachings of Mohammed either. And I take it that you don't claim that no Christian has ever demonstrated hatefulness or intolerance?

Not at all, but someone claiming to be a Christian who perpetually displays those characteristics does not have the love of the Father in him.

Faberge - are you seriously saying that you believe that Christ would have turned a trans gendered person from his door as an 'inadequate'??

Where did I say that? Christ ministered to prostitutes, tax collectors (the lowest of the low in those days), Jews, Gentiles, the crippled, the mentally ill (remember he cast out the demons from the raving lunatic on the hillside and drove them instead into a herd of pigs? He brought peace to the demon-possessed), the bereaved and even the dead (Lazarus). His message to a trans person would have been.....well? What? Do you think I am going to put words in Christ's mouth? I can only point you to His word, the Scriptures - whenever he ministered to the disillusioned, the sick, the mentally ill - He healed them and then told them to repent and take up their cross and follow Him.

I doubt Jesus never ministered to those in the crowds who felt wrong inside- for whatever reason. Trans issues are nothing new (believe it or not) and Jesus's message of love, forgiveness and atonement for sins was universal.

Jesus is commanding us to love everybody - right down to the 'lowest of the low'. How does this conflate to: 'Thou shalt write plays focussing on my sexual nature. Verily I say unto thee, thou canst cast me as a transsexual if thou shouldst want. I do not care as I didn't really have much of a message to spread anyway.'

No, it indicates that you calling someone an attention-seeking inadequate is emphatically not Christian. You're a hypocrite. Jesus had a lot to say about people like you.

So what is illiberal about suggesting someone shouldn't sin again?

What is liberal about commanding someone to practice moral agency and change their behaviour to that commanded by God?

"How does this conflate to: 'Thou shalt write plays focussing on my sexual nature. Verily I say unto thee, thou canst cast me as a transsexual if thou shouldst want. I do not care as I didn't really have much of a message to spread anyway.'"

Because it isn't a documentary. We don't know what the play is actually about, but what some of are trying to ask is how can you dismiss it as offensive purely on the grounds of Christ being portrayed as transgendered? because plays are metaphorical, or fictional, as Christ said on the quotes people have cited below, he was in everyone.

Don't be so literal - no, there is no passage in the bible where Christ turns a trandgendered person away from the door of his carpenters shop. The point is would Christ have been unkind, as you have been, about a person based on their relationship with their sex and gender? Given the parables and teachings, it seems unlikely.

Faberge, you do know that liberal ideology is completely in accord with the Christian view of hating the sin whilst loving the sinner, don't you?

The point is would Christ have been unkind, as you have been,

No. He is perfect kindness and love personified. Sinless, too. I am fallible and prone to sin and can become angry when I see my Saviour being blasphemed. I promise to work on that, especially for the atheist Mumsnetters who are deeply disappointed when a Christian on these forums turns out to be, well..human.

Faberge, you do know that liberal ideology is completely in accord with the Christian view of hating the sin whilst loving the sinner, don't you?

So what do you say is transphobic about my being saddened by this author's play?