To expect that grandparents should be included in Christmas?

[Mishaps]

If you take yourself on to Gransnet you will find a thread that will illustrate to everyone here how deeply hurt some grandparents are at not being included in the family Christmas. There are women there who have been the lynchpin in creating wonderful family Christmases for their children over decades and who will be on their own on the day.

I know that some families have rifts in them and not all parents make a good job of their role, but might this not be a time to heal some wounds and act out of kindness?

Lots of grandparents say they do not mind being left out, but please bear in mind that sometimes they just do not want to admit out loud how hurt and lonely they feel.

There will be many grandparents for whom a lonely Christmas day will bring tears.

Well personally, I can't erase years of abuse and no contact with my alcoholic father for 13 years just because it's Christmas.

We invite FIL because he's alone. He ruins Christmas for me if he's here but he's family. I don't in any way blame others for making a different decisions. I certainly would if he came every year.

I hope I still get to see my adult children on Christmas Day but there are many widea who want things their way and see the MIL as "disposable" as such.

I think there are a lot of sad people at christmas and a lot of selfiah ones, both old and young.

There's also many men who view their inlaws as the enemy, or a nuisance. There's also many wives and hsbands who put themselves out endlessly for their inlaws.

The thing is, there are horrible people in life. Some are grandparents, whose behaviour has led to their families quite rightly rejecting them. Others are just nasty men and women who would rather leave someone alone then put themselves out. It would be nice to think that the latter become the former one day but I doubt it actually works like that.

And, of course, there are some people who are alone because they genuinely have no-one .

Oh God this thread has hit a nerve. This will our first Christnas without my mum staying- we will have a newborn and a 3 yo plus no spare room so she'd be on the sofa ... She suggested staying home herself but I don't know if that's what she really wants - she lives in the same town as her mum, sister, best friend and her boyfriend but will probably spend the day alone as she doesn't fancy going to her boyfriends mums house. She is only in her fifties but I feel so guilty- however the last four Christmases we've spent together she has criticised a lot. Also my ILs refuse to see us when my family are here, so DH hasn't seen his family at Christmas for years. It's so hard to be fair to everyone.

I'm fretting about this now. On the other hand, the last time my mum invited her mum for Christmas was 1992.

When my dc are independant adults I'm not going to see them at Christmas unless that is absolutely what they genuinely want. I will be quite happy on my own for a couple of days. I think the pressure and guilt that some so called loving parents put on their children is awful.

Exactly, BarbarianMum.

Of course there are horrible in-laws and other family members, but I think what is making people sad - and I've especially seen it this year on MN - is the unpleasant excluding of (usually) mils who just don't fit.

We've been fed a diet of tv adverts depicting lovely big family Christmases where everyone is Boden-clad and joyous, and anything less indicates we've been sold short.

It's one thing if you can stick a garrulous mil in the corner and nobody notices, but when you have a small gathering it can become all about one person and they can set the mood for the day. Believe me, I know! But - unless someone is truly a bad person, I think you have to find some Christmas spirit.

My parents are nice enough. I skirt on the edges of the stately homes thread. I have had counselling. They are not totally toxic. Well to me. But are horrific to my sister which is appalling for her (and everyone witnessing it). But phrases narcisistic, emotionally abusive, cold, entitled all ring very loud bells.

Emotionally I am drained if I spend too much time with them.

I spend my childhood listening to my mother bitch about the fact we always had to have either her mother or dad's mother over for Christmas and how it spoiled it.

I have to listen to my dad being careless thoughtless and almost ruining the Father Christmas secret on so, so many occasions over the last few years.

You know what - we saw them the last 2 years for all of Christmas. This year is for us. DH is stressed to the max work wise. I am recovering from anxiety. What is best for us? A low key, just the 5 of of Christmas. No drama. No emotional blackmail. No fuss.

So yes, Christmas is the time of peace and goodwill etc etc. A time for family. But sometimes the family you have to think about is your own. Your immediate family. I will do my duty to my parents next year. This year? No, a year off thank you.

I know that some families have rifts in them and not all parents make a good job of their role, but might this not be a time to heal some wounds and act out of kindness?

In a word, No.

Blood isn't everything, and December is the month when "But they're faaaamily" becomes "But it's Chriiiistmas". It doesn't fly with me, if you can't get along for the other 364 days of the year, why do you think it'll be any different on December 25th when everyone's full of mince pies and pissed up on sherry?

Luckily for us, the in laws have never really done Christmas (even when DH was little), so we've never been invited anyway.

BTW, I would love my MIL to come for Christmas. Just not my parents.

My FIL is now on his own-he has no contact with anyone else in his family. We have invited him to us for Christmas for the last 3 years on the trot, and been turned down each time; I don't know what else we can do short of a 7 hour round trip to attempt to drag him away.

Also, when people live far apart the whole thing becomes so much more fraught. Having to tolerate people for a few hours for lunch is so much more manageable than being trapped with awful people for days on end, or being obliged to drive for hours on crowded roads with small children and then have to sleep on the floor and suffer someone's peculiar house rules...

I wouldn't at all mind a Christmas on my own in peace (age 60) so I hope nobody ever feels obliged to invite me.

I have grown up children but no grandchildren - but if I did, remembering the pressures of driving miles on Christmas Day to fit in both sides of the family with fractious, over-tired children - would make me tell them to do what was best for them. It's only a couple of days FFS.

I have heard plenty of old(er) people tell me (in confidence) that they would love to have a couple of days to themselves. I am just more up front about it.

Wow! - that set the cat among the pigeons!

I do not think it is patronising to express regret that Elsa had such a rough childhood - what is patronising about that? It is very sad.

I have to say that my parents (now both dead) were not the greatest of company from my own point of view (especially my Mum), but my children enjoyed having them with us. They were much better grandparents than they were parents.

My siblings and I used to share the grandparents out between us, each taking them one Christmas in turn.

Because of my OH's job he was always on duty over Christmas so we never went to them; they had to come to us.

It is interesting how this one day in the year is so important to people. It certainly throws up lots of emotions; and I think that many of us set very high expectations which can never be fulfilled.

My parents, ugh they don't even deserve the title, could be out on the streets and I still wouldn't invite either of the neglectful paedophilic bastards.

helloitsmeagain
so refreshing to hear a sibling acknowledge that their parents treat their other sibling worse than them

The purpose of your post was to set the cat amongst the pigeons

Yes, there are often lots of emotions and high expectations from all sides. It's a shame that what should be a nice time of the year can cause so much angst. Luckily both sides of my family spread seeing each other over a week, not that it helped last year when I had a work emergency, it was exhausting. I have no idea what we're doing this year due to some recent complications, I suspect people won't be happy.

I'm 71 and still in the business of what the OP describes as 'creating wonderful Christmases'. DSs show no sign as yet of taking over this rôle.

DS1 will come up from London, sadly without his lovely DP who will be visiting her South American family. On Christmas Eve, DS2's two small children will spend the day with their mum, then come for supper and stay the night here with their dad. Stockings in the morning, then their mum will pick them up and they will have Christmas lunch with their other DGPs, returning here late afternoon for presents and will eat another load of turkey etc with us. Luckily they have good appetites. Everyone lives locally so no long drives, all a bit complicated but everyone is happy with these arrangements.

The only thing worrying me is that DH and I are going in holiday for two weeks retuning on 20th December. This puts a bit of extra pressure on things like Christmas trees, decorations in general, last minute shopping, particularly as another family plus DS2's elder son and his fiancée will join us for our evening Christmas dinner, making 12.

I am starting to hope that maybe next year one of the lads will offer to host Christmas; whatever they decide to do, I certainly don't think they would abandon their parents at that time of year - and I would be pretty upset if they did.

Not every old person is the meek friendly stereotype.

But I think Trickydecision you are what would be termed a "fun" and "useful" parent and grandparent, making lovely food and a festive time for all. Fast forward 15 years and people may be arguing over whose turn it is to have old incontinent grandma...