...to be upset about her termination?

[princesspineapple]

I'm 21 weeks pregnant, and one of my best friends has just had a termination.
I'm all for pro-choice and it's her body etc etc... But she has basically used this as contraception (they've not used any protection for a year) and I don't really agree with that.
Putting aside my (and everyone's) feelings about her pregnancy choices... AIBU to be upset that she turned to me first in her "time of need"?
I've had MCs in the past, and am over the moon to be pregnant... So am finding it really hard to support her when she says things like "well it's only pea sized" when my little pea is now wriggling away in my belly!
Am I being a bit of an over-emotional pregnant lady and need to buck up and be a better friend, or is she actually being a cow?

Why shouldn't it be? Why should our judgements not come into this one particular topic? As LetGo says, this is a potential life/life we're talking about here. Surely more of a reason for us to think deeply abd express our opinions on it.

AnotherEmma, isn't the context of this thread that the OP, given her own history and being pregnant currently, wasn't too keen on her friend talking about her termination and wished her friend had sought support from someone else? My comments were about the scathing questioning of how she could call herself prochoice when really I think ideology has little to do with this situation.

I think she gets to decide too Emma. But I also think she has a responsibility to do what she can to prevent herself from needing to decide in the first place.

Not getting drawn into your attempt to derail into a bun fight KidLorne. Sorry to disappoint ;)

Because it's none of your business. It's not your life and it's not the life of your child. You are in absolutely no position to judge whether a woman should be forced to carry a child they do not want and/or are unable to support. Are you going to help raise all these unwanted children, in any way whatsoever?

"Not getting drawn into your attempt to derail into a bun fight KidLorne. Sorry to disappoint ;)"

AKA I don't have an answer to that so lalalalala.

I have also felt incredibly upset when people I have known have had abortions. All this guff about 'just a bunch of cells'.. it is not, it is a child. Sure there are reasons sometimes where the mother's wishes trump the right of the child to live, but that does not make it any less sad.

I am a feminist and an atheist, BTW.

fusion But the thread has moved on. Lots of people replied to the OP and I think the vast majority (including me) agreed that she doesn't have to support her friend through the abortion if she doesn't want to. That doesn't have anything to do with being pro choice or not. But she did include a comment about contraception and her post did spark a general debate about the ethics of abortion. There have been people getting hysterical about "murdering babies" which is why my point to you still stands.

Who said a woman should he forced to carry a child she doesn't want?

"Because it's none of your business. It's not your life and it's not the life of your child. "

You don't apply this logic elsewhere do you? So why here?

I already told you I'm not going to get dragged off into your bun fight.

LetGo
"I think she gets to decide too Emma. But I also think she has a responsibility to do what she can to prevent herself from needing to decide in the first place."
I agree with you on that. I just think they're separate issues. It may be that after an abortion, a health professional should ask the woman whether she would like advice on contraception, but at the point of deciding whether she should have an abortion (or whether she has the legal right to one) the whole question of contraception isn't relevant.

The notion that only pro choice opinions are allowed and that essentially, pro choice equals able to do what you want without any consideration for anyone else around you is incredibly tedious.

There is a vast difference between being able to choose what you do with your body, and others being forced to approve and even celebrate your choices regardless of the impact on them.

Let's look at this in context:

The woman in the op had a termination. meh, her body her choice yada yada yada. However, she then called the op to ask about recovery after said termination comparing it to the op's miscarriage of a much wanted pregnancy. Has even belittled the op's loss by talking of the baby as just a cluster of cells etc etc.

Now, if she wants to think of her pregnancy as just a cluster of cells at the point she terminated it then whatever gets her through the procedure. But just as I or anyone else shouldn't have the right to prevent her having said termination, so she does not have the right to expect others to think as she does. pro choice is just that. She has the right to choose what to do with her body and have a termination if that's what she wants, so the op has the right to choose what to do with her's and to view her pregnancy as a baby from the outset.

Do I think that pro life believers should be accusing people of murder for terminating their pregnancy? no. but neither do I think that termination is something to be celebrated publically. If you need a termination go and get one, the world doesn't need to know or care about it. If your pregnancy means that little to you don't throw it in the faces of people like the op for whom pregnancy means something...

If your pregnancy means that little

Now that's a massive assumption to make. Many women have terminations which mean the opposite of "little" to them. Their decision will have been incredibly difficult; deciding that you are not in a position to have a/nother child is often enormous.

And maybe they try to reassure themselves regarding their decision with the idea that it is just a small cluster of cells at that point.

Should they not talk about terminations, then? Are they not allowed to talk about how they are feeling or ask for support?

I wonder what those who say "only for rape" would decide if i were to ask them for an abortion in my case. This happened to me. I posted on MN at the time.

I split from my abusive Ex and after a few months i started seeing another man. After two condoms in a row breaking i checked the whole box and every single one had a tiny hole pierced right through the centre of it. The box was one left from when Exp and I were together. My new partner had never been to my house, i brought them with me to his. (Ex has form for breaking into my house also) there is no doubt in my mind that my EXp damaged those condoms probably to teach me a lesson for leaving him. I confronted him and he denied it of course. I was lucky enough to know straight away that they had broken so i took the MAP but its entirely possible i wouldnt have noticed and become pregnant. I wasnt raped but nor was i careless with contraception. I couldnt have proved my EXp damaged the condoms because his fingerprints would have been on them from when we were together. So would i be eligible for an abortion?

I dont see anyone saying abortion should be celebrated. Nor that the world should know or care who has one.

"You don't apply this logic elsewhere do you? So why here? "

I do, in fact. I believe that as long as you aren't negatively impacting any other living thing, you should be as free as possible to do as you wish. An abortion concerns the mother and the mother alone ergo she is the person who gets to decide what happens. Not you.

Many women have terminations which mean the opposite of "little" to them. Their decision will have been incredibly difficult; deciding that you are not in a position to have a/nother child is often enormous.

I completely agree with this - I also think that it's not always the case that women who have terminations were lax with birth control.

In my case, I've been fastidious with birth control since I was 15 - I've never not taken the pill and if I did forget, I'd always use another method of contraception.

In August, my long term partner and I made a joint decision to try for children.. I took folic acid, ate healthy... you get the idea.

2.5 weeks later I was holding a positive pregnancy test and crying my eyes out - Every week that went by, my hormones went more and more mental and when I mean mental, I mean I wanted to kill myself. I couldn't cope with how I felt and despite going to the Drs for anti depressants (which helped to a degree), I made the choice to terminate, rather than kill myself, which I honestly believe would have happened.

Terminating my pregnancy was without a doubt the hardest thing I have ever had to do - I feel an enormous sense of guilt, regret and shame that something that so many millions of women can do, I just couldn't cope - I will have to live with that for the rest of my life. I desperately want to be a Mother, my pregnancy didn't mean 'so little', however when you've gone from having absolutely no mental health issues whatsoever to planning your suicide in detail within weeks, something had to change. Trying to cope for another 6.5 months wanting to kill myself wouldn't have been possible.

So for me, it wasn't an 'easy' decision and I am very grateful I live in a country where I was able to make that decision and be supported by BPAS which employs very understanding and caring people. I wish I didn't have to make it and the guilt that we actually planned the pregnancy makes it worse...

However, I remain very strongly pro-choice and after my experience, I couldn't fathom wanting to convince or prevent a woman from making the decision that is right for her.

"as you aren't negatively impacting any other living thing, you should be as free as possible to do as you wish."

The thing is, while you don't consider the foetus to be a living thing, other people do.

I'm pretty sure that if you saw something happening that you strongly disagreed with that you would speak up about it.

Do you think abortion should be made illegal bumbleymummy or are you just personally pro-life/birth?

"The thing is, while you don't consider the foetus to be a living thing, other people do. "

Indeed. And those people don't have to have abortions if they don't want them. Great to have the choice, eh?

Kid, but from your earlier point, you think people are free to do as they wish 'as long as they aren't impacting another living thing'.

If you saw another living thing being impacted would you really be happy to just say 'oh well, I won't do that but it's ok if they do'?

Cerseirys, sorry, I'm not going to answer your question because, from experience, the thread quickly derails and descends into personal attacks and goading. I'm not interested. Feel free to PM me though if you want to chat. :)

Fair enough, I shan’t PM but it’s your prerogative not to answer the question. I actually don’t have a major problem with people who are personally pro-life or hold pro-life opinions.

It’s those who actively campaign to make abortion illegal who I have a problem with as all it will do is drive it underground and we’ll end up going back to women seeking out backstreet abortions and dying or ending up with infections etc. And I don’t care much for those who harass women going into abortion clinics either.

Well I don't harass women going into clinics :) (or attack abortion doctors as I have previously been accused of on here )

I think it's very unlikely that abortion would be banned in the UK although I do think the limit will be lowered.

the thing is that on mn nothing that isn't 100% pro choice is tolerated. I don't have any time for people who campaign against terminations or harass women entering abortion clinics, but neither can I find it in me to support someone's relief at having terminated a pregnancy.

There should be middle ground. As much as someone feels they should be able to access legal and safe abortions, so others should feel that they don't have to be pleased for them when they have managed to terminate that pregnancy.

If someone chooses to terminate their pregnancy then that is their choice. I'm glad they can do so safely and legally. But as much as someone has the right to terminate their pregnancy, they don't have the right to expect everyone to support that decision. The decision to terminate is a personal one to the individual.