To think DB just doesn't want to work, rather than can't?

[nottobeouted]

Backstory: DB is in his 30s mental health issues going right back and recently diagnosed as being on the spectrum (Although I have some experience in the area and I don't quite see it?).

He has never worked, has no qualifications, claims benefits, has always lived with our parents and spends his time in bed or gaming. He has been in this situation for 15+ years.

He talks about wanting to get a job, have a career, move out and over the years there have been a few failed attempts at training courses, college and university courses but everything always becomes "too much" and despite being rather bright he never completes them.

Recently DB had a "crisis" just after his ESA renewal was rejected and ended up back on medication although he is stable again now and has won his appeal. The team DB was treated under said it would be beneficial for him to have some structure to his day and referred him to a charity that helps people get back into employment. To cut a long story short they have spent a long of time with DB building him up with voluntary work (which he says he enjoyed) and have now helped him get an almost perfect job offer trial.

This week he has turned around and says he can't do it, he won't cope, it isn't worth it financially and he won't even give it a try. Our DPs are supporting him in this decision and he is now saying he is going to quit the voluntary role as it is "pointless".

AIBU to think DB doesn't actually want to work as he is in a comfort zone. And to think DM/DD should issue an ultimatum for him to at least TRY or move out. How else will he ever learn to "cope" with his issues? I fear otherwise DB is going to spend the next 30 years stuck at home mooching off our parents leaving them penniless in retirement ?

I sound like a heartless bitch but it seems as though he is doing nothing to help himself and quite frankly I'm exhausted because DM turns to me for emotional support and I'm sick of everything being about DB and his issues.

You have my sympathies OP, he sounds just like my DB, only my DB has never been formally diagnosed nor had professional support. He's 30, living at home with no career, social life or self esteem. My DM does everything for him, including pocket money and taking him on trips with her DP. Our situation is different as she is incomplete denial of his diagnosis (I am a dr so have some idea of what I'm talking about!)

All I can do is accept that they are happy with the situation and have detached. I can't control them or the way they behave, nor am I responsible. It frustrates the living daylights out of me at times, and I have had to "grieve" for a normal relationship with my only sibling who I can't chat to over the phone or pop to the pub with to gossip.

I've no real advice, but I think you're getting a bit of a bashing for expressing your own (valid) frustrations. He'll never be the brother you want him to be, I'm afraid.

Sorry to hear that, polter X

Yes I agree Toads.

I think others expect autistic people to have a sign on their foreheads or something, when in reality we just look like people :)

Agree with Polter and what she says about regression following diagnosis.

"I understand it isn't easy but how does anyone with a disability learn to cope unless they at least try new things?"

Autism and wanting to try new things aren't exactly natural bedfellows though.

He's expressing anxiety about how he'll cope with the change of routine and environment...ideally, yes, your parents should be reassuring him and going through scenarios and coping strategies - but it's not his fault that they've just agreed with him that he shouldn't go, nor is it his fault they aren't supportive of you...

Honestly, I think you're getting upset with the wrong person.

Sorry posted too soon. I meant to add that now my parents are getting older and they know they won't live forever I've found that its made them focus a little more on the future when they're not here to care for him. I know its a bit depressing but maybe getting your parents to consider the very long term they may be more open to changing how they support your brother.

TBH you sound jealous.

My 24yr old brother is trying hard to go to Uni but had to come home for the weekend as he hasn't been to a lecture for a month because his social anxiety / depression have flared up again. I'm so thrilled that he managed to get the train home and that he is still with us. He spent his entire teen years being agoraphobic and barely being able to leave his room let alone anything else. I am proud of anything he achieves but would much rather he stayed at home with my parents doing what he needed to to get by if it meant his life wasn't a constant stress and painful too him.

My Dad also suffers from MH problems, he hasn't worked for 15 years but a few years ago after climbing out of a particularly dark hole of depression was recommended he got some structure into his life so he did. He volunteers, it gives him a bit of a social life but no pressure to go on days when he can't cope.

My mum and I support the two of them the best we can they are ill it's hard to remember sometimes but we love them and we would both give every penny we had to help them leave a less stressful life instead of piling the pressure on!

With lots of support, many people with autism and asd can and do work, live independently etc.
Sadly your parents cannot or will provide this.
I'm not going to criticise them, because they are in a very difficult situation and, as a parent, I would do anything in my power to prevent my DC suffering in any way.
That's what your parents are doing.

I think it perfectly OK for op to be jealous that her bro has always had her parents time and attention.
She is only human, after all.

Trying new things is difficult.
Trying new things when you are already stressed about other things in your life is impossible.

I am fine doing new things, going out, stuff like that, when other areas of life are under control and predictable.
At the moment I have very little control and am in hermit mode. I would happily not see or speak to anyone, let alone even think about trying to get a job or do anything out of my comfort zone.

Phil I see you've already posted that quote I did but I obviously missed it the first time I read this thread.

I also have no interest in science or maths and have always had more creative interests like writing and art.

I've been told before that this means I can't really be autistic...

Don't want to derail the thread, but op...have you considered this is a really bad time of year for an autistic person anyway (lots of change in routine due to Xmas stuff, shops much louder and brighter, expectations to be happy etc)
I am not an autism expert btw, so please feel free to tell me to sod off if you are autistic and I'm talking bollocks!
I think if I were autistic or had asd I would find Xmas really hard :(

I think OP probably knows her DB fairly well, and will have a fair idea if he genuinely isn't capable of working or if he just doesn't want to. Having ASD doesn't mean that he can't also be lazy, or unmotivated - it will however make such issues worse. If the organisation supporting him think it would be beneficial then it is reasonable for her to expect him to at least give it a try. Nobody knows if he can cope with working because he has never tried. Yes, many people with ASD find work very difficult but by no means all.

SimLondon
It is exactly this, his unwillingness or self declared inability to face the world at all. I kind of understand DB finds it exhausting but when he is willing to engage with people from an outsider perspective things usually go well, he is a nice person just misunderstood. This is more so with 1-2-1 communication and not in busy places or strangers, but this job would provide that.

I have ASD. From an outsider perspective, I look fine in almost all human interactions. From an insider perspective, after several days in a row where I MIGHT at some point have to talk to someone, I get very, very, very overwhelmed and stressed.

I don't think you're heartless.

I don't think you're U.

I think you care about your parents immensely. I get there are roles that wouldn't be suitable for your DB but perhaps there are others which can focus on his strengths etc.

"It is exactly this, his unwillingness or self declared inability to face the world at all."

My DS's first thought (and he says most of his thoughts, there's no filter, lol) to something he's worried about is to just try to avoid it, he needs a bit of supportive chivvying to realise that he can do things that he's scared of.

It's taken years of gently pushing and helping him to get to the point where he works out how to do something rather than just going, in not doing that...until something unplanned happens, but we're working on that too, lol.

So maybe your bete noir is maths. If you apply your brain and think quite hard, you can do it. You can do it for ten minutes, fifteen minutes, an hour. Someone fires fast mental arithmetic at you or requires you to solve algebraic equations. You do your very best and concentrate, and you try to make it look like you're enjoying it, but after a little while your brain is all in tangles and things start getting on top of you. You turn up for work, and you're never sure whether someone will pop up from behind a cubey wall and you'll be required to do maths just to look normal. It might just be one or two problems or it might be a barrage lasting half an hour. The phone rings and you hesitate to pick it up because you know someone's going to make you do trigonometry. And you have to do it every day, every time you turn up for work. You can't ever snap at someone that you're not at work to do maths, you're here to do your work, because that makes you weird. Everyone likes to do a little maths now and then, what's wrong with you?

YANBU, it sounds as though he has got stuck in a miserable rut and is too scared to get out of it. Try to dissuade him from giving up the volunteering, not leading to a job doesn't make the volunteering pointless if he is otherwise enjoying it and making a contribution and learning things, building his confidence. It sounds like the charity might have tried to move him on too soon, though.
Giving up and refusing to engage might put his benefits at risk, too.

Then there's the engaging with people and it going well from an outsiders perspective. From an insiders perspective what you don't see what is rea'ly going on. Before the event all your mental energy is taken up running through every possible conversation scenario you can think of.

During the event you're having to think of every single word you say, frantically searching through the files in your head to find the right prepared script for this particular situation all the while being distracted by what to do with you body (where the fuck am I supposed to put my hands, behind my back, no that's not right, on my hips, should my foot be tapping like that, why is my foot tapping, omg they're looking at me what am I supposed to say now).

Then afterwards playing the whole event over and over and over again in your head. Examining every single detail. Should I have said this, should I have said that, what did he mean by that. Playing other scenarios in your head, what you shpuld have said and how it would have gone. Over and over for hours, days, weeks even years. The only way to quiet it all down is to lose yourself in something repetitive, like a video game.

It's exhausting.

whats going to happen when your parents cant cope with him or are not around anymore.....they are enabling him to an extent, and this will eventually fall on you.....sad though that some people cant be helped...dont know an answer to the situation, but you are allowed to express your feelings on it....to both him and your parents....whether they take it on board is another matter....i would be saying that 'i dont want to listen to it anymore...its nothing to do with me, i have my own issues' and leave it at that

I'm with those who think the OP is getting an unreasonably hard time. I certainly don't think she's a heartless bitch.

I don't understand how some posters can apparently have endless reserves of empathy for the OP's brother, but none whatsoever for the OP. It sounds to me like she's also in a difficult, frustrating situation.

I wish I lived in this black and white world that some posters seem to inhabit, where everyone is either entirely in the right or entirely in the wrong.

By the way, every job involves this maths barrage. You have to do it at the supermarket checkout, and when you get on the bus. Sometimes people walk up to you in the street and demand a quick quadratic equation from you. If you want to join a club where you can follow your interests, it invariably involves quite a lot of maths because nobody else seems to just be able to get on with what they're there for - they all want to have half an hour of freeform arithmetic before the activity starts and you feel left out because after an hour of your activity interspersed with frequent demands that you find x, the others all want to go for coffee and maths and you're tired out.

Maybe you latch on to one particular kind of maths you can do, or you learn to use maths in pursuit of one of your interests, but people get frustrated with you because you're always just going on about that little bit of maths that relates to your interest in knitting, because you know people like to do maths at each other and this way you feel like you almost fit in.

Please bear in mind that you're in your thirties, and you've spent your whole life trying to pretend you can cope with all the maths, you don't know why you struggle with it so much when everyone else seems to love it, and you feel broken and defective. And you've just been told you actually have a real, neurological difference that explains why you've struggled so much.

It's never black and white, and it's really hatd for everyone involved, but i just wanted to give OP an impression of how frustrating it can be to live in this world with ASD, when things everyone else finds easy are really difficult for you.

*hard