AIBU to report this little fucker to the police?

[Londonista123]

Sorry - long but genuine dilemma.

My flat and car were egged on Halloween (in vast quantities, if it matters). I was miffed but put it down to not answering the door to T'or'T'ers - until I realised that my flat and car were the only ones targeted in my building of 20+ flats. Car and flat are not next to each other.

After some thought, I put it down to a particular kid in my building. We've had a few run-ins before this:

• A few months ago I accidentally photographed him while documenting something untoward that's happening around the building, that I photograph and send to the council to report (excuse the vagueness, but think fly tipping / antisocial behaviour or similar). His angry mum knocked on the door a few minutes later and, when I didn't answer, left me an illiterate note asking me to stop photographing her son / show her the photo. I was reluctant to talk to her because I don't know who was involved in the thing I was actually photographing, and didn't want to mention it to her.

She caught me in my car a few weeks later (son was with her), asked me why I was photographing her son, none too politely, and I explained that I was photographing something else. She may now think I'm a paedophile for all I know.

(I also wanted to scream that I am free to photograph whatever the hell I want in public, but never mind.)

• On another occasion recently the son was making a serious racket directly outside my door (rollerskating up and down, shouting loudly downstairs to his mate). I went out and asked him to stop, which he did. I think he's around 12/13 y.o.

I really don't know most other neighbours here, certainly none with kids, and don't know who else could match me with the car, and would particularly want to egg my house.

I put a posted, anonymous note through their flat door to the effect that I'd reported their kid to the police for his Halloween "joke", and he was welcome to come by and apologise if they wanted me to withdraw the complaint. I was hoping a) his mum would give him a bollocking, since I doubt she knew and b) to frighten the hell out of him.

Got home to another note through door: I think you sent me a note [...] you say my son did a Halloween JOKE [...] go ahead and report him to the police if you think it was him [...] but report yourself at the time time for photographing my son.

I'm now even more certain it was him, and angry because the response I expected was to have the son say sorry, not an aggressive note from his mum.

So... do I now actually go to the police about what is technically "criminal damage"? I feel that the local police (like police everywhere) have much, much bigger fish to fry, and frankly I'd be embarrassed to ring up. I also think he's unlikely to do this to me again since he's now been caught.

AIBU to report this, and have the police round to "chat" about not egging houses?

OTOH - I'm angry. If this was my son, he'd be cleaning up the mess and writing an apologetic letter, whereas his mum's note seems to think she believes his behaviour is justified.

sorry i was being a bit dopey op. i did not mean you should not report if something is going on. i meant lay low when you are reporting. ie dont bring things up with neighbours keep it to your self and report. then it cant come back to you. as it is now they would suspect its you right away. could have maybe reported the photo 'thing' and the things the boy had done at the same time. they may well have said there is no evidence or what ever but least you would have reported it and its on file. would of kind of hit 2 bird with one stone and the neighbour/boy would never have known it was you and. it hopefully would have got sorted.

Thanks ghost. The anti-social thing has been going for ages and is with council rather than police, so not easy to combine. Photo "incident" was ages ago - early summer I think.

Ricardian- I've never actually seen a large man in a hells Angels jacket, so I don't know why I would see one going out of the way to photograph my child.
I'm not talking hard, because it's not hard really is it? It's just something that I would feel no end uncomfortable with. I can see no reason why people should take photos of my child, and would see it as part of protecting my daughter... You've no idea why random people will be taking photos of your children, and I wouldn't allow it.
Maybe I perceive things in a different way because of past sexual abuse and the main thought that runs through my mind is that the person who would randomly take photos of children could be that reason.
But I don't quite deserve the flaming I've got- yes I'll admit it's not a reasonable way to act, but neither is taking photos of people's children, especially if it is distressing to the child in question.
It's an unreasonable reaction to an already unreasonable situation.

So tell me everyone, how many of you go around taking photos of children you don't know?

What would you do if your child had come to you and said someone was taking photos of them and that person refused to prove that your child wasn't just in the photo by accident?
In that situation of course I would want it deleted.

I do think that if you had handled the photo thing differently, more sympathetically, then this would be a totally different scenario. All you had to do was tell her that you weren't including her son in the shot on purpose, and apologise. That would be a pretty normal response, but I suspect it never occurred to you to do that, and I wonder whether that is because, as yourself said, you feel superior to them.

I think you need to examine yourself very closely, as I am pretty sure that that attitude is more marked than you think it is. It is not helpful for good neighbourly relations. As long as you are living in the midst of these 'inferior' people, you will have bring problems upon yourself due to that attitude.

It's worth rememberingthat "there but for the Grace of God go I" and realising that you areonly superior to them due to the accident of birth. This does not make you superior, only lucky.

I think if you look at this from her angle - "someone has been taking photos of my son from her balcony. I've popped round to ask why she was doing so and she hid in her flat - I put a note though her door that was also ignored. She's now put an anonymous note through my door accusing my son of egging her property. I replied, admittedly a bit hot headedly, and again asked her why she was photographing my son - still no reply! What should I do next?" - you can see the problem here!

I'd maybe record the dates and times for your own record so that if anything escalates you have something to back it up, and maybe just apologise to her. A note saying you were photographing something else and her son was in the frame but you have now deleted the photo.

Jux - yes, I handled the photo thing badly - but if I had told her her son was in the photo by accident, she'd have asked to see the photo, and would have seen the thing I was actually documenting, which I'm concerned her/her mates are involved in. If I could think of a better way to handle it, I 'd have done it.

I'm not claiming to be superior to my neighbours because they're poor/council tenants/uneducated/whatever else - I am claiming that I feel superior to the lady who strikes up her first joint at 11am and carries on through the day, the guy who has his staffie shit in the lift, the woman who locked her kid out the house last weekend and told him to "fuck off, I'm sick of you".

I literally do not speak to / run into / talk about my neighbours except to my DP and on this occasion - I am out the house from 7am to 8pm. Unless my superiority complex is being transmitted through the air, I don't think they have a sense of my "attitude".

Completely agree with specialsubject. Some of the replies on here read like cheap rate (and that's saying something) EastEnders.

So some of you consider vandalism/assault (illegal acts) acceptable behaviour, but someone taking photographs (a legal act) unacceptable and therefore 'punishable'? Have you SEEN how many people take photos/videos these days, given most have a camera on their phone and can't even sneeze without photographing it?

Bloody hell.

So tell me everyone, how many of you go around taking photos of children you don't know?

But she didn't deliberately photograph the child. And there are probably thousands of children caught in photos/on videos by strangers every day, given our fondness for photographing/recording random minutiae of our lives.

sounds like OP has inadvertently dug herself a hole.
I had experience of similar some 10 years back, I don't know if councils do the same thing now. Council's advice was to keep a diary of the harassment: facts, dates, and if things got out of hand to call the Estate Rangers immediately. I think I called them twice before things quietened down.
Answer the door to this person - no.
Drop notes through the letterbox - no.
Will it escalate? - ours did, to fist-sized stones being thrown at the windows, car wipers & windows trashed, our cat drowned and dumped. Attempt at kicking the front door in. Got so I took to taping the letterbox up every firework night.

Our neighbour's boy (say, 8yrs) listened to our discussions and his mum took the line many of you have said above: keep your head down and do nothing, its just kids having fun. Next time I visited (she had moved) there was a large crack in their dg window- her darling son had done the same thing to their own house, standing in their back garden & throwing a rock.

Get some advice from the Council, and cut all communication with this woman. Don't open your door to strangers, and that includes her, or anyone at all after dark. I'd be particularly careful walking from car to your flat, now its dark in the evenings.

What would you do if your child had come to you and said someone was taking photos of them and that person refused to prove that your child wasn't just in the photo by accident?

You: "prove that you took that photograph by accident".

Photographer: "No".

What's your next move?

You've no idea why random people will be taking photos of your children, and I wouldn't allow it.

You: "I won't allow you to photograph my child".

Photographer: "So what?"

What's your next move?

wobbly - that sounds terrible, I'm sorry.

Yes I have lots of random children in photos. The ones I took in Trafalgar Square, at the zoo and many other places, have children I don't know in the background.

Don't be (sorry). For me it was a learning curve. Good luck.

From reading your opening post. Yes, I do think you are being unreasonable and somewhat petty. Take a deep breath and focus on something more important and move on.

As others have mentioned you have gone around this the wrong way.

This is going to be a mess as though the kid got photographed accidentally, any explanation will probably end up with you on the chav grapevine being targeted as a busy body. they probably know the people acting untoward.

This could escalate massively and maybe time to think about CCTV?

This thread contains a rather unedifying mixture of paedo-hysteria, victim-blaming and condoning of anti-social behaviour.
I take pictures when I'm out in public. I don't carefully wait until every child in the known universe is out of shot, nor am I obliged to.
If some unhinged parent came and demanded I delete them I'd refuse. If they attempted to snatch my phone off me, I'd report it as a theft.

Poor OP has had a neighbour have a go at her and had her property egged - yet people are telling her to apologise? Just because she accidentally captured the image of some wee scrote?

How can it be OH MY GOD UNFORGIVEABLE to photograph a flipping child/teenager?

If this were the case, you wouldn't be able to take many photographs of public places.

I'd be very surprised if the parents of the little sod gave a shit, anyway.

I'll admit it's not a reasonable way to act, but neither is taking photos of people's children,

I'm in the street. I take a photograph of my child or, indeed, of an amusing shop-front sign.. Your child is in the background. And you will then storm over and demand that I "prove" it's "by accident"? My response would be politely to tell you to stop being stupid, up to the point you got in my face, at which point I walk away . Of course I'm not going to show you my phone. Of course I'm not going to delete photographs. If you choose to go around with paranoid fears and a taste for being unhinged, it's not other people's responsibility to pander to you.

You are right to be annoyed about your car. Report the incident. But you have no proof it was this boy. You shouldn't be sneaking round taking photographs. I'd hate it if a neighbour of mine did this. Also putting the note through the door was very bad and especially anonymous. I think I'd move in your position. Not always easy. But you won't win with this type of person.

Ricardian the OP isn't a random photographer, she is a neighbour. All she had to do was say sorry and delete the pic. It's not that difficult to remain civil with people you have to live beside. If the OP hadn't got so caught up in her 'right' to take the photo then this probably wouldn't have escalated.

I was working at a private event with lots of children. The event was in a public space and a professional photographer started taking pics. This is how the conversation went:
Can I ask what you're photographing because the DCs are at a private event?
Photographer: Sure I'm also a member of xxxxx (professional body). Here's my membership card.
The photographer didn't want to piss people off or cause any of the DCs any unnecessary worry. Tbh I've worked with a lot of photographers and some were real divas but I cannot think of one that would have refused such a request.
OP's problem hasn't been caused by photography rights. It's arisen because of her attitude.

Yes, I do think you are being unreasonable and somewhat petty. Take a deep breath and focus on something more important and move on

Wait until your life features being on the receiving end of anti-social behaviour in the one place you should feel safe in - your own home - and then someone tells you to "focus on something more important and move on."

If someone snatched my camera or phone from me I'd punch them in the face.

This will all end very badly mark my words. Stay clear - she'll win, sounds to me that you're sort of stirring the pot here and will make yourself more of a target. I'm not excusing the behaviour of her son (if it was him), but you clearly don't like her or him and it will not get any better.

Have skim read, so forgive me if I have missed something. Just a couple of points of view - firstly, if your note was anonymous, how could the child apologise to you? There was clearly something in the note that identified you.
The woman and child do not sound fantastic, but then, the rest of your neighbours don't either - smoking joints/dogs shitting in lifts - are you sure this boy was to blame? Because to be honest, if I was that mother and my son came home to tell me that he had been skate boarding/hanging around outside the building and someone was taking photos, I would want to know why. Not from the paedophilia angle, but just why were you busybodying around and taking photos that included my child.
To follow that up with telling him off (justified, I agree), closely followed by notes about egging which he may not have been involved in, and it does start to look as though you have a problem with me and my family.

You say you are superior to your neighbours. Perhaps that has come across and some entirely random person has done the egging.

Sorry OP, I don't think you have a shred of proof for any of your allegations, but I do feel for you and hope you get moved soon