to think schools shouldn't expel children

[Dontexpell]

They will just fall further behind with education which means they will be less likely to get a job or go
To college.

AIBU to think it's a silly punishment.

By the Way, its actually about joined up thinking.

Mainstream school budget is around £5000 per year, rising to around £8,000 for a low income child with assessed needs.

PRU costs around £30,000 per year

Not dealing with the issues at a young age results in
Prison which costs up to £35,000 per year for many many years, let alone the costs of the justice system.

Well used Exclusion to PRUs saves money.

I read this week about a young teen who sadly hung herself after being expelled

Think it was on msn homepage. And the school/headteacher have been firmly blamed

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3298978/High-flying-teen-13-hanged-day-thrown-grammar-school-stealing-knife-blood-sisters-friend.html

dontexpell you might disagree, and im assuming that is because you actualy cant be arsed to do anything, but practical suggestions have already been given in the thread. A local to me group of women along with a chuch made packed lunches every day of the summer holidays and took them to the local estate to ensure the poorly supervised kids on there had a good meal every day. These are kids who would get free school meals during term time, often the only decent meal they get. so theres another suggestion. So no, Youre not correct that theres nothing you can do.

I read this week about a young teen who sadly hung herself after being expelled
Read the story properly.
She was NOT EXPELLED
She was suspended for two days for stealing a craft knife
In returning a narrative verdict, the coroner added: “This was an action of self-harm contributed to by a failure to fully consider the implementation of their major behaviour policy and exclusion policy.”

God, you're nasty.

Really nasty.

Do you really think I have the time or the money to be wandering around the local estate with sandwiches? I can't afford it, and I'm at work anyway.

I volunteer. I'm for direct constructive action but for many that isn't practically/ emotionally or physically an option. Sometimes I've needed to step back from some activities and mentally regroup. My family first and all that.

I don't entirely agree about epetitions and marches being pointless. I think the results are slower burning than direct action but if people are moved to make noise and public understanding of situations is broadened I'm sure it sways future political paths.

I listened to someone talk about foodbanks. His honesty stays with me and reminds me to pop bits in when I shop. A foodbank is a reaction to a bad situation. Its not the time when someone is at rock bottom needing food to offer any more than immediate practical help. A foodbank/ soup kitchen/ homeless centre is treating a symptom. It offers no cure. Political change is whats needed to seek cures. Politics are slow.

I feel both those who sign epetitions and those who practically support are needed. I get frustrated with people who say 'someone' should do something. Recently i read/ it was quoted 'there is no they, just us.'

We/ us we're the ones to do something and make change in any way we feel we can.

dontexpel
We are not being nasty, just pointing out that there is no them only us

Either we do things or we pay others to do things

The current government is cutting the public sector right back - so it will not be able to support children like the one in the story you read about

therefore it falls to volunteers

Fair enough but telling someone actually they could but they can't be arsed is completely out of order, you have no idea at all. I actually do a lot for my community but I can't do everything and have to think of my own children too.

Yes but to blame schools for excluding children for things that happen after exclusion is really daft.
Schools never exclude without good reason.
They are not free childcare.
They have to think of the safety of children. All the children. Not just the one who might face exclusion.

Actually you said there was nothing you could do.

I was expelled at 14. It was honestly the best thing for me (and probably the school). I was placed in a unit where the support I was given was fantastic. i really came into my own there, felt I was treated with respect by the staff and they were obviously highly trained in dealing with the 12 of us. The way things were taught there suited my style of learning much better. I even got a few GCSEs from the unit, which I don't think I would ever have managed at mainstream school. It gave me the confidence to go onto college and eventually uni. Sometimes being expelled, with the right support, can be the best thing.

Yes, and you told me I couldn't be arsed to do it calleigh even though you know NOTHING about me, but to be honest have better things to do than sit here arguing, maybe you enjoy it, I really don't, it upsets me actually.

That's a really inspiring story hairy. I think sometimes people forget giving people equal opportunities in education doesn't mean treating everyone the same and trying to shoe horn everyone into mainstream education. The pru system works brilliantly for many kids that just don't do well in standard comps.

Don't the parents of a child who is so bad they are expelled need to shoulder some of the blame for what happens to them.

I think there are situations in which exculsion is the only option. We can't have violent kids threatening the stability of the classroom or disruptive ones permanently allowed to damage the life chances of other pupils by ruining their education.

OF course part of the problem is mainstream school does not suit all people and we need more specialist units. Problem is this all costs money and Ebeneezer Osborne is taking it all away.

Purpledaisies
Round here the PRUs are used to make the comps work better.
A half term at the PRU can get right to the bottom of issues and behaviours
and the kids re integrate really well

itsmeohlord
If the parents were able to look after themselves it would be an issue about the kids, but many parents have such disorganised lives they need more support than the system can afford.

I was a PRU student. In fact I loved my PRU unit classes of 4-6 with one teacher and work tailored to each of our individual needs. I was a child who would become loud and bothersome (never hurt other pupils/did drugs or brought weapons to school) I went to PRU 3 separate times as each time I did well school wanted me back, the third and final time they decided it was too expensive and simply ended my school life I had no education given to me from y8 till I applied for college at 16. The school wouldn't let me move schools nor take my GCSEs/be on site, lea wouldn't provide home tutoring or more PRU funding. My mum was constantly ringing the school and Lea who where always going to call back but never did. I sure hope it's better for today's children, not everyone can learn in a one size fits all.

Do I regret being naughty? Sure I do, do I think I could change the way I behaved back then in mainstream? Not a chance the whole environment triggered something in me which made it impossible to cope with. My coping mechanism was to be disruptive.

A half term at the PRU can get right to the bottom of issues and behaviours and the kids re integrate really well

Here too-kids that never look like they'll turn around can come back different people. Some end up staying there long term but the pru seem to do a brilliant job with them. I think there should be loads more of them (I appreciate funding is a huge issue).

I think there should be loads more of them (I appreciate funding is a huge issue)

There are PRUs and PRUs
Locally we used to have 7 little ones which were all a bit crap
so they were all merged into one massive one (over 100 kids)
that is working wonders

It will pay for itself in reduced crime, social exclusion, teenage mums, unemployable people etc etc

We're lucky to be on an area where they are all really good. I totally agree that the cost would be covered by the reduced crime etc... Unfortunately governments don't often take this long term view and just go for dealing with this year's bottom line. It's depressing.

Not all disruptive kids are poor. Lots of rich kids play for attention too.

Depends what the little fucker has done, sometimes it's the only option. Far better than letting them disrupt the whole class.

Dontexpell

Are you seriously saying there are no instances when a school should expel a pupil?..... That his/her "right" to be taught in a mainstream school overrides the rights of others?

It's a bit like saying that sending people to prison should be banned, whatever the crime, because it affects the prisoner's life chances!

In an ideal world there would be no permanent exclusions, but managed transition to more suitable provision. There are times when a child has to be permanently excluded for the safety and learning of others.

Lack of support and lack of social workers caused the death of that poor girl in Blackpool.

I think there is a small % of children for whom the combination of a naturally volatile personality AND the hormones of the teenage years may make them temporarily impossible to teach.

I think most schools try very hard to avoid permanent exclusions.