to think schools shouldn't expel children

[Dontexpell]

They will just fall further behind with education which means they will be less likely to get a job or go
To college.

AIBU to think it's a silly punishment.

I think is a ridiculously naive opening post tbh.

Unless it's intentionally goady.

Either way

^The first time I heard him say that was in the explainer assembly after the kid in question had been asked to leave. He had lit a rocket firework and thrown it over into a cubicle whilst a girl was weeing. The thing exploded, and the poor girl had to have the majority of her skin grafted. Her life was ruined.

Want that kid back in class with your pfb, OP?

PRU's are meant to be short term solutions only
Not round here - kids get sent to it for up to a term : it works.

My headteacher used to say that whilst you are entitled to an education, you are not entitled to it here.
There is no them only us
Which is why schools that exclude can be forced to budget for those kids till they get alternate provision
especially after some of the cleansing that went on at Academy schools.

I agree with highway

At dd last school where she was in reception.... I was stunned to find out a boy was excluded for 3 days at the age of 5.

Now the 1 TA for the class of 32 spends every single afternoon doing one to one.

My friends 8 year old was permentantly excluded from his mainstream school in the summer term. He has suspected ASD with PDA, now he is in a PRU and getting the support and professional help he needs that he was not getting at his old school. He is under the community Paeditrician awaiting a date for dx assessment. His old school were useless and used words such as manipulative and controlling to describe him. They had an agenda and wanted to wash their hands of him. His behaviour was typical of a child with PDA, but they just did not want to pull the resources to help him.

My younger brothers getting expelled from school was the best thing that ever happened to him. It allowed access to services which have really turned around which we wouldn't have been able to access whilst he was in mainstream education. It's wrong it should be that way though.

Sorry about the appalling grammer. I only have one younger brother. And am not too clued up about apostrophes.

I work in Primary Education OP. Do you actually have any idea how difficult it is to permanently exclude a child from school? Obviously not!

hey, I didn't vanish - I went to feed a friends cat and spent some time fussing it.

Iabu then :) it just I read something that upset me a bit that's all.

Clash

I too knew a lad like this. He was my ds1 friend and just didn't fit the school mould at all and was always getting temporary exclusions then being placed in another school.
Permanent exclusion was the best thing for his education, he studied vocational courses and now at 24 is out earning many of his peers.
Self employment suited him well and he is a great husband and father.
He always greeted me lovely when I saw him and you'd never know he was badly behaved in school.

ClashCity, it's sad that an expulsion seems to be the only way that schools can access specialist services. PS Your grammar is fine. If you want to be pedantic about apostrophes brother's would be the place to put it!

We exclude violent criminals to prison ... the difference is?

What have you read OP?

dontexpell
it just I read something that upset me a bit that's all
Daily Fail perhaps?

Yes permanent exclusion us sometimes the only way, but schools can unfairly exclude children like my friends ds, they could have done a managed move or a flexible move to the PRU, but decided to permenantly exclude him instead.

Please remember that some violent kids might have undiagnosed SEN.

This does not excuse the violent behaviour but does explain why they may show it in the wrong setting.

My friend's son is autistic plus other issues, he cannot cope in mainstream school, even the special school he is in isn't suitable. He needs a specific educational setting which can address his needs.

My son who is also autistic showed his distress in a different way...he literally used to shutdown. He wasn't violent but he learnt nothing and tbh he might as well have spent the whole of Y7 at home....he went backwards.

A special school which has focuses on his receptive language issues has been brilliant.

It hasn't worked for my friend's son at all who when distressed will break windows and throw chairs. Thankfully we have a boarding school nearby which could meet his needs well but there will be a fight to get him there.

A child should not have to be excluded to get the help they need. It's wrong just plain wrong. Setting a child up to fail is awful and can have very serious consequences.
It's wrong too for other children (and teachers) to have to cope with the disruptive and challenging behaviour of a few but excluding is not the answer. Specialist alternative provision that is timely is the answer.

I was physically attacked by a child with ASD who was in my class. He was temporarily excluded and quite frankly I needed the few days he was absent to pull myself together and decide what the next plan of action was.

A child should not have to be excluded to get the help they need.
Specialist alternative provision that is timely is the answer.

But they are the two sides of the same coin.
The PRUs only take the most needy
So the school has to jump through the full hoops and record
rather than just brush under the carpet

remember that Secondary School budgets in England are under £5000 per pupil per year
PRU costs ten times that
the money does not grow on trees

Sometimes there is no option. Some kids don't need specialist provision. . . They are a product of entitlement and don't see why rules apply to them.

I was upset because a girl was expelled and then was murdered.

It was sort of like ... She was expelled and had nothing to do in the day and fell into this dodgy crowd, I know it's not just being expelled but I wish she'd been around adults who could keep an eye out for her.

That's all. Sorry if I offended u.

In my personal experience it seems the pupils who won't tick boxes for ofsted and their % getting a-c's are the ones moved to PRUs. Then you have others who will tick the boxes being handed hundreds of "last chances".

I'm not blaming teachers it must be bloody tough having 32 kids an hour a day so nearly 200 a day and having the pressure of getting the grades.

It only gets worse too as schools used to be able to pull in funding to put pupils with additional needs (behavioural or SEN) on school action / school action plus. Now the first 12 hours at primary and i think 16 hours at secondary of dedicated support come directly from the school budget. It could be seen as a conflict of interest for schools to early interveen.

We wont know a out the effects of this for some years though.

The head of the school my DD used to attend ended up being part of a managed move into retirement because she refused to exclude some dc who were violent and ruining school for staff and children alike.

Mainstream school is not the place for those who are entirely dysfunctional and unmanageable. It helps nobody.

Yes that's not right either BetweenTwoLungs.

These children need much more support which can only really be given in a non-mainstream setting.

Teachers in mainstream settings shouldn't have to cope with physical attacks. Sad thing is that the same child may be totally different in the right setting.