Use of child death as an analogy for sense of loss should be punishable by wearing a dimwit hat for ever more

[wibblies]

Fucking Liz Fraser in the weekend guardian is the latest in a long line of journalists and writers who seem to think this is ok.

Here's a sample of what she has to say in her article about her sense of loss in watching her children grow from primary age into teenagers:

"When the joy goes - and it does, because life moves on and you can’t play peek-a-boo with a 12-year-old who wants to play Minecraft with his similarly zit-infested mates – it feels like bereavement."

"Those young children are dead now. They are gone."

"The bereavement is long, slow and refreshed every day."

Just so you know, Liz Fraser, watching a child grow up as it gets older is really not anything like not watching a child grow up because the child is dead. I know this, because I've tried them both.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who notices this shit? Please tell me you recognise that it's not the fucking same at all? That it's not even a tiny bit similar and that it's crass in the extreme to suggest it?

wibblies for what it's worth, I think you have handled yourself with dignity and grace throughout this. You are definitely the bigger person
Liz Fraser needs to make a real apology. Not a stroppy teen sort of thing.

In summary: don't put out if you can't take criticism.

Fraser did call people dicks and trolls, btw. Nice.

I've reached the end of the road with the banal tripe that seems to fill it each week.

this

I've read the Guardian for DECADES

the Family section and other saturday arseholery is testing my loyalty to the limit

which is a shame

Thanks SarahMumsnet

This idea that someone can only be offended by something if they read the paper in question is one that I struggle with. It might make sense for something like swearing, but for something like this? Nope, sorry.

Sometimes there are things we all need to get outraged at, whether we've seen it firsthand or clicked on a link, because ONLY through a certain level of outrage and gathering momentum will changes be made. Am I being clear? What I mean is that aaying you're only allowed to get offended if you saw the piece firsthand means that people will essentially be allowed to get away with all sorts of racist/sexist shit because their audience is small and/or aren't the type to complain because they think that way themselves.

A letter on its own seems like a good idea but how many people would notice, really? It would be printed, and then forgotten about and nothing would change.

But Twitter IS a dreadful place to contact people directly. Too easy to resort to personal insults, and it's easy for the immediacy to feel like an attack and make people immediately defensive.

And cunts too, suckingegg. Didn't she use the hashtag #nicepeopleandcunts? I don't think I imagined it; suspect it's been deleted on the quiet. Even nicer.

My feeling is it's been a very important discussion to have had - her article is not beyond criticism whatever she may choose to suggest - just because perhaps it's considered to be in the area of women's domestic lives - written in that Yummy Mummy blog style.
The Guardian wouldn't expect any of it's other articles to be beyond serious critique so why would this one be?

Personally I'd like to see more intelligent writing about family life, relationships, and the experience of parenting - just like you get here in fact, especially from the awesome MrsDeV

Wow. If she called people cunts, she's beyond contempt.

.... Would that be this one?

I've just realised she's the woman who's made a career out of being a self styled 'Yummy Mummy'.

Bleurgh.

Sucking Eggs All I can say is it takes one to know one!

Well.

Well.

Well.

Liz - really?

Did you mean to be so spectacularly rude? Do you really know what you're saying?? Why not take a breath, look away from the responses sparked by your ego, try really hard to see why you upset people and acknowledge that they are not the problem here.

Cunts, though? REALLY?

Cunts and nice people?

Well I know who the nice people are and its certainly not liz.

That's the one, kacie. Thanks for posting the screen capture; I was worried I'd imagined it.

She is reminding me of a school bully, who, finally after getting a taste of her own medicine, bleats on to anyone who will listen about how mean we all are, and she never did anything wrong because an ickle little angel.

I bet someone at MNHQ knows her, if so, tell her to wind her neck and stop acting like a victim.

Oh dear Liz

Step away and think about what you are saying and why they are reacting to you as they are

right

this time yesterday I was all "lets leave it" but she has called people CUNTS?

words fail me - ANGRY!!!!!!

Yep. And she's called them cunts for the joint offences of:
-being bereaved
and
-being upset by her article
and
-mentioning it.

Yep. I'm really offended on behalf of my fellow vipers.

Sharpens pen.

And pencil.

I've followed this thread from the beginning, and have considered tweeting her several times but haven't (didn't seem much point, really, as she's clearly not hearing it). I think her article was ill advised and hyperbolic, but she can be easily forgiven for that - many articles are. It's her behaviour on Twitter subsequently that is unbelievably awful. What the fuck is she thinking, snarking at upset/angry bereaved parents that they are cunts/dicks/trolls with no sense of humour. What an absolute fucking arse. Have lots of people emailed/written to The Grauniad?

Gosh, I've never lost a child so haven't felt qualified to comment on this thread before but that 'cunts' tweet is seriously nasty.
She should be ashamed.

Seriously? This woman is on the Blog network? She has behaved beyond appallingly.

I agree with Crabby. I thought it was just very poor writing with a lack of perspective, but common enough for that sort of piece.

I cringed at it, I thought she was clearly missing a grip on reality, but I also felt sorry for her.. because I genuinely hope, on a human level, that she doesn't feel as miserable about her children growing up as that would be terribly unhealthy for her and for them.

From working with people who have very troubled family relationships, unfortunately I do think that there is a phenomenon sometimes where people do "mourn" their children's natural agency, growth and change as if it was a betrayal or a death, which ultimately is a narcissist's way of just completely denying a child's individuality, sovereignty and agency. At the severe end of the spectrum, this can cause untold psychological damage.

I am not saying this is true for Liz at all, but that was my first thought - God, I hope she doesn't really think this is the same as death...

The reactions since have just been flabberghasting. I really struggle to see how you could publically call people "cunts" for taking issue with how you wrote and how it hurt them.

Very sad, really. When you let anger pass, you just have to ask, what sort of life must you be leading if you carry this much hate for no good reason?