Use of child death as an analogy for sense of loss should be punishable by wearing a dimwit hat for ever more

[wibblies]

Fucking Liz Fraser in the weekend guardian is the latest in a long line of journalists and writers who seem to think this is ok.

Here's a sample of what she has to say in her article about her sense of loss in watching her children grow from primary age into teenagers:

"When the joy goes - and it does, because life moves on and you can’t play peek-a-boo with a 12-year-old who wants to play Minecraft with his similarly zit-infested mates – it feels like bereavement."

"Those young children are dead now. They are gone."

"The bereavement is long, slow and refreshed every day."

Just so you know, Liz Fraser, watching a child grow up as it gets older is really not anything like not watching a child grow up because the child is dead. I know this, because I've tried them both.

Please tell me I'm not the only one who notices this shit? Please tell me you recognise that it's not the fucking same at all? That it's not even a tiny bit similar and that it's crass in the extreme to suggest it?

Using death as a metaphor is very very common.

Exactly, CurrerBell. Death is a shit metaphor for continuing to live. Can you imagine...

Person A: Do you still have that lovely little rose plant?
Person B: No, it died.
Person A: That's a shame, what happened to it?
Person B: It grew into that huge rose bush over there.
Person A: Oh. It didn't die then, did it?
Person B: The little rose plant died when it grew into a larger rose bush.
Person A:

Person X: How's your dog?
Person Y: She died.
Person X: Oh, that's sad. Will you be getting another?
Person Y: No, we still have her, she's just bigger now.
Person X: Oh right. I though you said she was dead?
Person Y: She's house trained now so the dog we used to have is dead.
Person X:

Parent 1: How's little Gertrude these days?
Parent 2: She's dead.
Parent 1: I'm so, so sorry. I had no idea.
Parent 2: She's about to start University though.
Parent 1: Crumbs, I must've misheard, I thought you said she was dead.
Parent 2: Little Gertrude is dead, she's been replaced with teenage Gertrude.
Parent 1:

I mean, WTAF?

(I'm obviously not comparing plant/pet death with child death, but just to show how it doesn't work in ANY context whatsoever).

SurferJet - of course. People can be clumsy. Everyone knows this (bereaved people more than others).

That doesn't make it OK of course but no one would expect perfection.

The article was couched in a "death" effect, it had words added in for dramatic effect, and it got the effect over.

When that hurt people, they reached out very gently to the author.

She then promptly attacked them, called them trolls and dicks, and I suspect enraged some people who then did get angry and more "threatening" (in the "how would you like it" vein, not the "I will track you down and murder you way).

This isn't a "let it go" situation for me. She's been unprofessional, rude and insensitive, and she makes money from Mumsnet members.

She needs to grow up.

There are some things worse than death, my friend died this year after a long, drawn out illness that robbed him of the opportunity to live a full life. His death was horrible but his life at the end was so hard and he suffered so much and for years, that much of my grief and anger was directed at the illness that stole his life slowly. The loss of opportunity. His family were exhausted by the grief of seeing him in pain. Now that was a bereavement refreshed every day. He at least has been released from that.

my friend did this, when she got married

she changed her last name to her husband's, then announced [hername][herpreviouslastname] was dead

she was a bit crackers, mind. And she wasn't doing it in a newspaper

Agree with Confused (although of course no one wants a slow painful death for anyone)

MackerelOfFact - great post, sums the whole thing up perfectly.

I agree. But there things I would never want for my children in their adult lives, not equating the loss of an adult son with a child just reflecting on the subject in general. I can see this is totally the wrong place for that though. I am sorry.

"Been a ghastly experience at this end"

And it could so easily have been avoided. Tbh, I'm surprised she didn't compare her experience to the death of a child....

Yes Mackerel and Kacie good points clearly expressed. Can anyone pinpoint any action we could take about her articles and subsequent twuntishness?

I am not a bereaved parent, but I feel so angry about this. It's just indefensible to behave like she has.

Sorry bigmouth, I've just realised I've turned it into a "grief contest" sort of place with my last post which is the last thing we need here.

The truth is it hurts losing anyone at any point, and grief isn't restricted like that.

To explain what I was trying to get at; I haven't had kids, only miscarriages, but it feels like there's something extra awful about losing a child who perhaps couldn't articulate a problem, didn't know what was happening, or was just so vulnerable and had no defences like adults often do. I can't imagine the pain of losing a son or daughter at any point.

But all grief and loss is "valid" if that makes sense. Agh, I don't think I can explain my vague feelings very well and I'll stop taking now on that one. I'm really and deeply sympathetic for your friend and their family, it must have been just awful.

I'm also cringing at the idea that I've stirred up bad feelings with that last post too, sorry.

From now on I'll just stick to my solid annoyance with this woman which I hope I've spelled out enough above!

In terms of action, I don't know ... I'm still hoping MN are eyeing up this thread and could say they'll talk to her privately maybe, I wonder if only someone with a bit of perspective (ie not us end users) could reason with her.

It is entirely possible to say the wrong thing and be mortified afterwards. Nice people do it.
I once told someone with a child who had speech problem which were less severe than my sons that she was lucky.
She rightly became upset. I apologised, genuinely and from the heart, and repeatedly until she, and the others who were rightly pissed off with me, believed me.
I don't believe she's lucky, I never did. In a moment of feeling astonishing upset at the bleakness of my sons prospects of a regular life I said something really crass.
But the point is I immediately realised and I regretted what I'd said. I took the arse kicking I got because I'd earns it.

Liz still thinks it's all about her.

confused

I honestly can't imagine it. I'm so sorry for your losses.

Her latest tweet says 'Been a ghastly experience at this end '

It's all about MEEEEEEEEEEEE!

I have not lost a child, and I found those lines about the children being 'dead' quite offensive and upsetting. She was clearly going for dramatic effect and the 'being a parent is just so hard ' line, and it backfired massively.

However, what I have found almost even more offensive is her complete lack of any awareness about why people are upset about the article and how she is name calling bereaved parents. It's like she is so self absorbed she can't even see why her article was so upsetting.

Also, im nkt a twitter expert, but i cant see anything on there, nor on here, where peolle have been outright abusive toward her, just upset people.giving their opinion. And yet sje keeps about 'abuse' and #trolls. I guess if her 'my children are dead ' article is anything to go by, the woman is a complete drama llama anyway, so I guess its not surprising that she has acted in this way.

Liz, if you are reading this - cop yourself on will you?

Some people NEED PERSPECTIVE.

YES, am SHOUTING.

Gaaah!

I'm so sorry for your loss Confused

I don't know what's happened today, but yesterday I looked at tweets to her and there was nothing offensive at all- just people from this thread pretty gently pointing out to her why they were upset

there was one abusive tweet which she rtd

I'm guessing that the trolling/abuse thing was made up as I didn't see any of it- unless people were tweeting abuse then deleting it very quickly

as for what to do- people have appealed to her better nature but an acknowledgement- much less an apology- have not been forthcoming

I think you're onto a hiding to nothing

that said, this thread has been an eye opener for me- and, I don't doubt, for others.

for all of you on this thread- especially (of course) the bereaved. You've conducted yourselves with grace, when it would have been pretty easy to take the bait.

MN should be proud of you

If her children are teenagers, presumably they will read her 'article'. I wonder what they'll make of it? So she hated it when they were small but, now they're older, she wishes they were still small?
My parents barely tried to hide the fact that they were only really interested in us when we were at the 'cute' stage of childhood - it hasn't been great for our self esteem.
I've always regarded the ability to admit you got something wrong and apologise as a sign of maturity and strength of character. If this woman has any friends, I really hope one of them has a quiet word with her.
to everyone who's been hurt by this.

So she hated it when they were small but, now they're older, she wishes they were still small?

Maybe that is the problem, instead of enjoying every moment of the time we get to spend with our children she has openly hated the bit where children relied on her as a parent but is now finding her role redundant because they have grown up and as teens are independent people doing their own thing.

So many things about this bother me but one of the main ones is the NON-apology that she keeps harking back to.

"I'm sorry IF I offended anyone" is not an apology!!!

It's saying I did nothing wrong, you chose to take offense at my inoffensive action. It is very passive aggressive.

"I am sorry I offfended you." Now THAT is an apology.

Or even better:

"I am sorry for what I wrote. I have been insensitive and I was wrong. I am also sorry for heaping abuse on people who were upset by my actions."

Fat chance of her ever saying anything like it though.