DP and I can't agree on whether DC should be vegetarians or omnivores.

[MyNewBearTotoro]

I am vegetarian and have been for 10+ years. For me it is an ethical decision. DP is an omnivore, he eats a mostly vegetarian diet at home as we eat together but he cooks/ buys himself meat a few times a week. That's fine, I don't expect anybody else to follow my ideals or think my decision is the only or 'correct' one.

We have two DC. 2yo DD is from my previous relationship (her biological father has no contact and DP is to all extents and purposes Daddy) and is vegetarian as she was weaned by me before DP took on a parenting role. DS is 4mo so not yet weaned but will be in a couple of months which is what prompted the conversation. DD is healthy and I have done a lot of research into providing a balanced, healthy vegetarian diet to toddlers as I never considered any other diet for her.

Both DP and I agree that once they are old enough to do so our DC should be free to make their own decisions regarding whether they want to eat meat or not. The problem is we have a different idea of what the 'default' should be until then.

I feel the DC should be fed a meat-free diet until/unless they start showing an interest in eating meat. DP thinks they should be given meat when he eats it until they start questioning why I don't eat it and then we should let them make a decision.

I guess I feel like I don't want to feed my DC a product I see as unethical without their consent. But I can see that to my DP, who feel eating meat is ethical and 'normal,' it seems like I am pushing my own morals on them. I guess the problem is I see eating meat as the abnormal and he sees not eating it as the abnormal - both of us want our children to eat a normal, healthy diet but we disagree as to what that means.

Is one of us being unreasonable? Is there an obvious compromise or will one of us have to back down? And is it obvious from the outside which of us should back down because we seem to have reached a stalemate.

[AryaOfWinterfell]

Our family are probably quite odd in that both my ex & I are vegetarian, but both DDs were raised to eat meat.

The reason for this is that although we have have an ethical stance on not eating meat, we didn't want to impose our views on our children. We thought it was an easier decision to give up meat than to start eating it. We also wanted it to be their decision, so if we eat communal meals such as lasagne it's veggie, if it's individual meals such as sausage & mash then they have meat ones. They have never eaten tonnes of meat, but them eating it has never been frowned upon, just accepted as what it is.

My eldest has just announced that she's giving up meat as she doesn't really like the taste & my youngest (9) has said a few times recently that she wants to be a pescetarian so I have stopped cooking them meat altogether.

My eldest wants to travel the Far East with friends on a gap year in a couple of years time and said that she may go back to eating meat whilst away. I just said that it's her body and decision and her decision and she can do what she wants.

I'd therefore say give both of your children the option of eating meat and one day you may find that their views align with yours and they give up eating meat. At least you know it's then their decision.

[Mmmmcake123]

We were both vegetarian and raised DD veggie also in her early years. However I was concerned about her fitting in with peers. When she was still 3 or 4 I remember ordering her a patty free cheeseburger in McDonald's at a friend's party! At this point I started to feel like I was dictating away from the norm a little bit too much. I knew she was having a healthy diet but decided that she could choose whatever she wanted at the next party which had a buffet. She eats whatever we do but does seem to love seafood whenever it's available

[CultureSucksDownWords]

Parents "impose" their views about many many things when their children are small and can't make choices for themselves. Being vegetarian is not "imposing" any more than choosing to give your children meat is. They're both a choice. It irritates me intensely that people insist that vegetarian parents are unfairly foisting their views onto their children, when meat eaters do exactly the same.

[itsbetterthanabox]

Lots of people start eating meat after not having eaten it before. They aren't ill. I know people who have done this.
They weren't ill.
Killing for food is killing for pleasure as it's not necessary for survival it's just people think it tastes nice. That is for pleasure.
It's hypocritical to draw the line at certain animals. Either you think killing is ok or you don't.

[AGBforever]

I haven't read every single pp but I did the same as you - fully vegan until that made me ill - then I found out I was expecting. Why is it so hard these days? lots of milk proteins or random whatevers in things that should be perfectly normal?

[WomanScorned]

Both my boys are vegetarian/vegan. Both their dads eat meat, but don't have ethical objections to vegetables, so are fine with me only providing vegetarian food at home.
DS1 (adult) never wanted to try meat, and is now vegan, by choice.
DS2 (5) has tried hot dogs at a party. He liked them, but says he doesn't want to become 'a meat eater'. I suspect he may try it again, at some point. It's his decision. Meanwhile, he lives in a non-meat eating home, so there's none on offer.
I believe, strongly, that the meat available to us is unethical, unhealthy and unnecessary and I would be a hypocrite to buy it.

[AryaOfWinterfell]

Itsbetterinabox - my ex & I ate a meat lasagne at a buffet once by accident the host told us all the food on that particular table was veggie so we although it tasted slightly 'odd' we thought it was quorn.
Up to that point neither of us had eaten meat for about 25 years and we were both so ill that night we both thought we'd got food poisoning!
It wasn't until I saw my friend a couple of days later and explained to her that she went really red and said that the caterers must've cocked up as there was no quorn lasagne only beef!
I honestly think that because by that stage I had been veggie for longer than a meat eater my body was just not used to processing meat.
I tell you what after that night my ex & I swore that we would never, ever want to go back to eating meat.

[AryaOfWinterfell]

Culture - I do think that I would be imposing vegetarianism on my children. Whatever you or I wish, it's not the default setting for people in this country. We just never wanted what they eat to ever become an issue or for them to be banned from things. We could've easily bought them up veggie, but rightly or wrongly just wanted them to not have hassle at school, or Friend's houses etc.
I guess that it helps that my reasons for being veggie aren't really to do with any views on the ethics of meat production and more to do with environmental reasons. Although I did make sure that any meat & dairy products and any eggs are organic, this comes from reasons to do with fewer antibiotic use rather than the animals frolicking in a field view.

[itsbetterthanabox]

Arya I appreciate you were sick sorry to hear that. But what was being said is that veggies can no longer digest meat. They can still digest meat. Everyone's different too as I know people who are meat after not having eaten it for many years and did not feel sick.

[CultureSucksDownWords]

Fortunately I'm utterly disinterested in what is the norm for the rest of the country, as I'm far more interested in what's right for me and my family. Every parent imposes their choices on their children, it's wrong to single out vegetarians for doing so.

And your last sentence about animals frolicking was really quite patronizing - did you mean it that way?

[CultureSucksDownWords]

Sorry, Arya, just read your post again and apologies for misinterpreting the last sentence. Time for bed I think for me.

[AryaOfWinterfell]

Culture - No I didn't mean it to be patronising, sorry if it reads that way. What I was trying to say that maybe if my vegetarianism was due to ethical reasons about factory farming etc then I guess I would find it harder to feed my children meat.

[AryaOfWinterfell]

Culture - Oops xpost. Yeah time for bed for me too!

[claraschu]

I agree with Culture and Mapless.

The meat industry is environmentally devastating, horrifically cruel to intelligent animals, and not particularly healthy for humans either.

Why is it that someone foisting (for instance) their own choice to be religious on their innocent children would never be questioned? Even though all the major religions are demonstrably illogical, bigoted, and sexist? Meanwhile, a vegetarian raising kids to consider the impact of their consumption on the earth and on their fellow creatures is told it is wrong to go against the majority behaviour.

[Salene]

I also tried meat (chicken ) in my early 20's having not eaten it for about 18 years and I was very very ills it hit. So much so I tried again even though I had consider giving up being veggie. So had I been made a veggie by my parents there is now way I could of changed back to eating meat as I couldn't handle being that ill again.

[Salene]

Ah stupid phone , sorry if that don't make sense but hopefully you get what I meant

Very ill with it *

So never tried again *

[ExAstris]

Because, Maplessglobe, it's not just the cultural norm, it's the biological norm. Our bodies - teeth, gut, metabolism, digestion - were made to eat meat and vegetables. We, as a species, are omnivores. I can respect an ethical argument not to eat meat (though logically that would have to include eggs - the male chicks killed at birth for egg production to exist are just as dead as, eg, the deer killed for venison), but the norm for our species is omnivore.

[claraschu]

ExAstris we do lots of things which are not the biological norm for our species: sleep in a separate room from our newborns; feed babies on cow's milk; eat additives; wear high heels; the list is endless.

I agree that our bodies are designed to eat meat (though not several times a day, and not meat in the form it is currently served to most kids). The planet was not designed to support 7.5 billion people (and counting) all eating meat in the quantity and production method of the US and Western Europe.

[CultureSucksDownWords]

A vegetarian diet is an omnivorous diet, eggs and dairy being animal products after all. Humans are able to tolerate a wide variety of diets, where protein etc comes from a range of sources. Meat is not necessary and if some people choose not to eat it then that's in no way a problem. Why meat eaters get so wound up about people choosing not to eat meat is beyond me. Eggs and milk production is an issue and is something that should be thought about carefully. Perhaps all the meat eaters who keep pointing it out might like to become vegan as a result?

[Pidapie]

Vegetarian when you cook, meat when he cooks :) Don't see that as a big problem.

[acquiescence]

I am about to give birth to our first child- I am a long term veggie and DH is not. I do all the cooking and DH isn't that bothered about meat. He buys tuna but no other meat products at home and will have ham sandwiches or a steak when eating out.

I will continue to cook veggie foods at home only bit will not say 'my child is vegetarian' when eating at in laws/friends etc. The child can make its own mind up when it is able to. I will probably try and be careful about anyone else feeding them processed meat or factory produced chicken etc.

[JessicaTreuhaft]

Totoro, your last post makes me feel really sad for you. I would feel the same if I had a partner asking for dd to become religious. As I eat meat, this comparison is the only one I can think of.
For me, I get the same sick feeling of her being 'fed' religion. In our house we talk about our position and stick to that.
I then turn a (hard to control) blind eye when her nana discusses heaven and jesus and then just re iterate at home our logical reasons for not having faith. Perhaps you could do that. Its not in the house, its not in any way instigated by you but you will gracefully ignore it if the children have a sausage roll at a party or if your husband takes them out to an (ethically sourced?) restaurant. As they grow then you can both explain your viewpoints to them.
It has been pointed out on this thread that people place their own choices on children all the time, the important thing is not to put them in a position of guilt or shame if they eventually choose a different path.

[ExAstris]

But Claraschu, we still know what the norm is. That's all my point was - some posters were claiming being omnivorous isn't the norm, just a cultural convention and that therefore vegetarianism (which a PP put at 10% of the population) is just as much a "norm" as eating meat. As I said, I can respect an ethical choice to be vegetarian, I was just arguing that being omnivorous is the norm for our species. Also for a lot of people (me included) the biological norm is the place to start, before deciding if there are sufficient arguments to change that, e.g. I certainly don't sleep apart from my baby, or feed him cows milk, nor did I his older sibling, I try and avoid additives, but I'm 5'2", so if I don't wear heels (albeit chunky, practical ones, not stilletos) I end up with a crick in my neck and not being able to reach things! ;) For some people, there are sufficient reasons to defy the biological norm wrt meat, and that's fine for them, but it is still the norm.

[ExAstris]

Culturesucksdownwords as a meateater I don't care what others eat (though ok I get twitchy when I see people buying battery eggs and non free range meat, maybe I'd be better saying I don't care what others don't eat). I do get irritated by the rhetoric from veggie and vegan acquaintances re "If you won't eat puppies why will you eat sheep?" etc (even come up on this thread). FB's particularly bad, with memes usually showing horrendous conditions in foreign, outdated producers of cheap meat and equating that to all meat eating. There are ways to eat responsibly sourced, free range, meat from non-stressed animals - e.g. there's a free range venison farm in Scotland that did cortisol tests on their deer before and after slaughter (they shoot with a silencer from the back of a van the deer are familiar with) and found no stress at all, nor among the remaining deer.