DP and I can't agree on whether DC should be vegetarians or omnivores.

[MyNewBearTotoro]

I am vegetarian and have been for 10+ years. For me it is an ethical decision. DP is an omnivore, he eats a mostly vegetarian diet at home as we eat together but he cooks/ buys himself meat a few times a week. That's fine, I don't expect anybody else to follow my ideals or think my decision is the only or 'correct' one.

We have two DC. 2yo DD is from my previous relationship (her biological father has no contact and DP is to all extents and purposes Daddy) and is vegetarian as she was weaned by me before DP took on a parenting role. DS is 4mo so not yet weaned but will be in a couple of months which is what prompted the conversation. DD is healthy and I have done a lot of research into providing a balanced, healthy vegetarian diet to toddlers as I never considered any other diet for her.

Both DP and I agree that once they are old enough to do so our DC should be free to make their own decisions regarding whether they want to eat meat or not. The problem is we have a different idea of what the 'default' should be until then.

I feel the DC should be fed a meat-free diet until/unless they start showing an interest in eating meat. DP thinks they should be given meat when he eats it until they start questioning why I don't eat it and then we should let them make a decision.

I guess I feel like I don't want to feed my DC a product I see as unethical without their consent. But I can see that to my DP, who feel eating meat is ethical and 'normal,' it seems like I am pushing my own morals on them. I guess the problem is I see eating meat as the abnormal and he sees not eating it as the abnormal - both of us want our children to eat a normal, healthy diet but we disagree as to what that means.

Is one of us being unreasonable? Is there an obvious compromise or will one of us have to back down? And is it obvious from the outside which of us should back down because we seem to have reached a stalemate.

[UngratefulMoo]

I have no advice for you, but can tell you my position as an (almost) lifelong vegetarian.

I will not serve or feed DD meat or fish, because it makes me uncomfortable and I can't test it. However, if she is given it by others (nursery, GPs, DH) then I have no issue. As a result, she eats a largely vegetarian diet (DH does little food prep at home). When she gets old enough to ask questions I won't lie about how I feel, and then she can make her own mind up.

[TheCraicDealer]

Would you feel more comfortable having ethically sourced meat on the side at the odd family meal, or would you prefer your DC's first experience of meat to be something cheap, nasty and coated in something claiming to be breadcrumbs produced in questionable circumstances? I think kids who have 'one of each' as parents are lucky to have the potential for a really varied diet. You and your DP are bringing different things to the table [ahem], there's no reason why having the mere option of meat or fish one or two nights a week needs to be a massive drama. I think, "it's there if you want it", is probably the best way to go. Get to know a decent butcher and try to find the best quality locally produced meat you can.

[Purplepixiedust]

I am a long term vegetarian my DH is not. Our house prior to having DS now 9 was mostly meat free with DG occasionally buying meat for himself. When DS was born we agreed to bring him up vegetarian until he was ok enough to choose. For me it seemed wrong to feed something to my child that I wouldn't eat myself. Since he wasn't old enough to care either way, why would you.

When DS was 4 he started asking to try meat. We explained where it came from and let him try various things shortly before starting school. He now eats meat but will often choose a veggie option and eats mainly veggie at home. We tend to have fish fingers, sausages, bacon, ham. I very rarely deal with raw meat other than those mentioned.

We did read up when DS was small to make sure he had a balanced diet. Once we had DH was happy. Through nursery it was easy. They offered a veggie option. I'm with you OP.

[Bimblywibble]

I think I'd expect the one who felt less strongly about it to give in, out of respect to the other's stronger sentiments. And between a veggie and non-veggie, as the non-veggie I would expect to cede the argument. I just can't imagine feeling so strongly that my children MUST have meat that it would put my feelings in the same league as those of a long time veggie.

However I wonder if your DH is fighting this one so hard because you got to choose with DD, and the 'default' is she carries on as YOU decided, so this now he's determined to get a say, or something.

I think some sort of compromise will be the way forward, though I understand that as a veggie it would feel like you were the one "giving up" more. How about fish up to twice a week if DH cooks it, or something?

As for people picking at the ethics of vegetarianism... Pfft. OP has principles about killing animals, acts on them, fewer animals die. All good in my book.

[arianwen88]

"I understand why you feel so upset about this, but I think the best thing to do is let your DP cook them meat if he's cooking, you just do veggie when you are.

Your views don't trump his."

But if the DP gives the children meat then his views are trumping OP's views that the children shouldn't have meat.

OP - I'm curious, did you two discuss this at all before you had children? Surely when he started dating a vegetarian who was feeding her DD a vegetarian diet he must have realised that you'd probably want to do the same for any children you had with him? Or has he felt more strongly about this since DS was born?

I would also ask him how strongly he feels about this. I wonder if the thought of the DC not having meat is making him feel as sick as the thought of you giving them meat is making you?

[WoodHeaven]

It is a strange question for me because tbh, if anything I'm pushing the whole family to be more 'vegetarian' rather than meat eaters. This is because I believe this is an healthier option.

I agree that it's easier to bring up a child vegetarian and then to let them decide if they want to eat meat once they are older rather than being omnivorus and become a vegetarian (or at least that has been my experience).

Imo, there are no health issue with bringing a child up vegetarian (vegan is different, I agree with you there. Even though I know a few vegans who are bringing their dcs vegan too).

The issue you have is much more about finding a compromise between you and your DH. You should not have to compromise on your own ethical beliefs because 'that's the norm' imo.
If I understand well, your DH finds eating meat the 'norm' (well HIS norm) but has no ethical issue with vegetarian foods.
You on the other side have some ethical issues about meat.
Therefore I believe it would be fairer to bring your dcs up as vegetarian as them eating meat and asking you to cook said meat would mean that you will have to back down from your own ethical beliefs. Which clearly isn't right.
On the pov of the children, you are not taking anything away from them by being vegetarian whereas you could by bringing them up eating meat (if they decide to be vegetarian for ethical reasons again).

[DisappointedOne]

For me it seemed wrong to feed something to my child that I wouldn't eat myself. Since he wasn't old enough to care either way, why would you.

Alongside meat, I don't eat bananas, tomatoes, courgettes, aubergine, tofu, bread, rice, pasta, potatoes, salmon, shellfish, blue cheese.......

Should DD really not have had those things because I choose not to eat them?

I made a point of exposing her to those things so she could make her own mind up, just as I did aged 10. How can you know you like or dislike something you're never exposed to?!

[DepecheNO]

Meet DepecheNO and DepecheBRO, adult siblings raised veggie by a veggie mum and meat-loving dad.

No subsists mainly on vegetarian foods but is not ethically against eating meat and does enjoy a good Nando's. She is grateful to have been raised by a vegetarian as she feels that not eating a lot of red meat is healthier, and that many meat replacement products are rather tasty, regardless of ethics. She tends to get an upset stomach from steak (however well done), but speculates that meat-eating DF actually had the same problem but was too into his meat to quit. (She does insist on meat at Christmas, because the Quorn Family Roast seems to be made of 100% rubber, and meat is the highlight of a roast dinner!)

Bro is veggie for ethical reasons. He's a science type and would tell you that there is no solid argument for humans eating meat where other options are available. He is glad to have been raised veggie because he was likely to be sensitive about eating animals anyway. (He's a born pacifist.)

I say there's no harm in raising kids veggie, and concur with the above posters that children with one veggie and one meat eating parent are effectively privileged in terms of appreciating the whole picture r.e. ethics and diet. It was never made into a big deal in our house. Reckon they're more likely to want meat if you ban it than if you don't serve it by default. DF ate later than us on weekdays because of work and wanting a meat-based meal anyway. Meat was more of an occasional bonding thing for us - bit of a novelty for a while, but I could quit any time - honest!

[JamesBlonde1]

The last time I looked the majority default position in the UK was to eat meat. Let him get stuck in and enjoy some succulent, tasty meat. Seems the vegetarians get their own way a lot on this thread by making the family home "meat free". Poor husbands - surely they must hide the pork pies somewhere?

[CultureSucksDownWords]

DisappointedOne, presumably you don't choose not to eat those things for ethical/moral/welfare reasons? I think every parent wants their child not to inherit any of their own poor eating habits (should they have them). That's not the same thing at all as having a vegetarian diet.

[LarrytheCucumber]

My parents had this dilemma. DF was brought up a vegetarian, DM a meat eater. In the end DM insisted that DSis and I would eat meat. DF does eat cheese so we had some days when we all ate the same (esp macaroni cheese I remember) and some days when DF cooked his own food and DM cooked for DSis and me.
It was much less culturally acceptable in those days (1950s) and vegetarian options were not routinely offered as school dinners etc. I don't think it made much difference to us, to be honest, it was just what our family did. I do remember going to big family occasions held by DF's family and there being veggie and non veggie options, and I think some of the vegetarians took up meat eating in later life. Legend has it that DF tried meat at the age of 35, couldn't see what all the fuss was about and didn't bother again.
Although the fact that DF is 98 might suggest that a vegetarian diet has been healthier, DM the meat eater is 89, so hasn't done too badly.

[avocadoghost]

JamesBlonde1 orrrr maybe the "poor husbands" don't care?

[CremeEggThief]

I brought my DS up as vegetarian from birth, as I did most of the cooking and would never cook meat or fish. However, he chose to start eating meat outside the home a few months ago, aged 12, without any digestive issues.

[JamesBlonde1]

Maybe they don't care Avacado. And maybe they don't have an opinion.

[redgoldandgreen]

I am vegetarian, DH is not. We went for vegetarian as the default and one of our children has chosen to eat meat, the others don't want to try it at the moment. I personally wanted them to understand the issues involved before making the decision and was happy for them to eat it once they understood where meat comes from and what it is, how it is farmed etc - dh agrees, so we never had a discussion about it.

[lieselvontwat]

Of course not eating meat is a restriction stepaway. Ruling out any category of food restricts a diet, whether it's meat, dairy, gluten, root veg, whatever. Clearly humans don't require meat to be healthy, since there are millions of healthy vegetarians, but if you decide you're not going to give certain foods to your child for whatever reason it's inevitably a restriction.

So, another vote for allowing meat because the default for our species is to be omnivorous. I wouldn't couch it in terms of normal and abnormal, I think that's BU actually, but if you want to use those terms it's the vegetarians who are the abnormal ones because they form a minority. However that's not to say you should cook it OP, or necessarily even have it in the house. They don't need meat every meal. Agree with a poster upthread who said if you're going to be using childcare, letting the DC have meat there but not continuing how you are at home would be a good compromise. However you do it, if DP is so keen for the DC to have meat it should be his responsibility not yours.

[ShamefulPlaceMarker]

Surely if he's and omnivore then you're a herbivore? Or if you're a vegitarian then he's a meat eater?

Humans are omnivores, we're just intelligent enough to decide. So maybe let your dc be naturally amd omnivore and then choose when they can?

[CultureSucksDownWords]

A vegetarian diet is omnivorous, as eggs and dairy come from animal sources. A vegan diet is a herbivorous diet.

Just because meat eating is more common in the UK doesn't mean that vegetarians should feel obliged to go against their beliefs and feed meat to their children. That's no kind of reasoned argument at all.

[lieselvontwat]

Meat eating isn't just more common in the UK culture, it's more common full stop. Most humans eat some meat sometimes. And I don't think anyone has suggested vegetarians per se ought to feed meat to their children because most people do it. It's a response to a specific situation where one parent wants to feed a vegetarian diet and one doesn't. If OP had said they were both veggie and both wanted to feed the DC a vegetarian diet, that would be different. But in the event of a dispute, suggesting they defer to the norm is an entirely reasoned and sensible argument.

[CultureSucksDownWords]

Just because one option is more common doesn't make it the right choice. As far as I can see the OPs husband doesn't have any actual reasons or points to make about why their child should be given meat, against the beliefs of the OP. Just doing something because the majority do it is to act without thinking.

[WestleyAndButtockUp]

Both of us adults are vegetarian. One of our kids is a really fussy eater.

I would let her eat anything rather than continue the nightmare of a fussy eater.

[avocadoghost]

Lolz yeah alright James. All those poor men having their meat lust trampled down by their mean old vegetarian wives.

[itsmeohlord]

Omnivore.

[avocadoghost]

The thing is though liesel, people are generally vegetarian because they feel strongly about the food they eat. Meat eaters generally (not always - but mainly) aren't bothered as much. So I don't think the two stances are comparable - vegetarianism is more likely to be rooted in an ethical approach to food. It's understandable that the vegetarian parent would want to deviate from the norm.