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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

WIBU to ask MNers who think Trans Women are 'Chicks With Dicks' to ...

847 replies

KKCupCakes · 31/10/2015 21:49

Take a look at this article about supporting families of Transgender people by the Gires.org.uk Website to see why that view is so utterly incorrect and harmful?
www.gires.org.uk/assets/supporting-families.pdf

OP posts:
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7
Garlick · 03/11/2015 15:32

"I was not happy using the gender neutral bathroom."

I'm speechless. This is delusion made fact (like so many transwomen's victories.) Additionally, this implies all the female girls must pretend to be gender neutral so Lila can enjoy her masculine femininity Confused

I only hope the gender neutral bathroom's big enough for the other girls to use!

TalkingintheDark · 03/11/2015 15:32

I know, venus. Getting it from all sides. Being accused of being bigoted and transphobic and illiberal when the battle for our own human rights and safety is still so very, very far from being won. As all this demonstrates.

howtorebuild · 03/11/2015 15:32

The Granville states in the clip she doesn't want to use a gender neutral bathroom. What may happen is the girls will use the gender neutral bathroom and the transgirl along with her supporters will use the girls bathroom.

venusinscorpio · 03/11/2015 15:33

If they do that, some attention seeking trans girl backed up by powerful lobbying will demand entry, and get it legally mandated. Women are not to have any spaces at all even when there are sound reasons for these spaces. I'm amazed how so many useful idiots can't see that when they sign slactivist petitions to allow men to be put in women's prisons.

SlaggyIsland · 03/11/2015 15:33

I watched the video. I'm afraid that Lila looks like a teenage boy in a wig. Utterly inappropriate to force teenage girls to be naked in front of them. It's actually coercing them into some sort of sexual violation.

howtorebuild · 03/11/2015 15:34

Blush Transgirl not Granville

TalkingintheDark · 03/11/2015 15:35

So in that case, the transgirl becomes the real girl and the real girls become gender neutral. Fucking brilliant. How can we possibly be resisting this marvellous progress?

venusinscorpio · 03/11/2015 15:36

Sorry, my last point was replying to the point made about people choosing schools with no trans girls. I can't copy and paste, as I'm on a stupid kindle. And also hopping mad! :)

TalkingintheDark · 03/11/2015 15:37

Yeah, and what's with the wig anyway? Boys can grow their hair long all by themselves, just like girls can!

TalkingintheDark · 03/11/2015 15:37

Am also several posts behind in my replies! Also incandescent!

howtorebuild · 03/11/2015 15:39

If you press down on the kindle screen by the text, you will find copy and paste.

venusinscorpio · 03/11/2015 15:41

Thanks howtobuild :)

MrsTerryPratchett · 03/11/2015 15:47

Well the solution is clearly to make the larger room 'neutral' and the tiny one 'girls' and every girl that doesn't want to change in front of a male-bodied person can use the 'neutral' room. Lila can use the 'girls' one. You would end up with exactly the situation the girls want. Would that make everyone happy? I really doubt it. Unless the important thing for Lila is to be with the girls changing.

iamaboveandBeyond · 03/11/2015 15:49

Well that is disconcerting - she looks like someone male i dated at about that age!! Shock

SettlinginNicely · 03/11/2015 15:51

It's actually coercing them into some sort of sexual violation.

Yes. Exactly.

When you have teenage girls and you are trying to teach them boundaries; trying to teach them that their bodies are their own; trying to teach them that they don't have to put up with leering, groping, etc; to teach them that it is OK to expect bodily autonomy this comes along!

howtorebuild · 03/11/2015 15:52

Lila may have won the battle, in such a small town once her activist friends have gone, Lila will lose the war. Sad for all really.

iamaboveandBeyond · 03/11/2015 15:54

If you run into a flasher, do you reckon they can claim they identify as female? I've never heard of a female prosecuted for it? Hmm

Garlick · 03/11/2015 15:56

That will change, iam - just as the numbers for violent crimes & murders committed by women are going up. Because it's illegal to record anything about the perpetrator's sex, only their self-proclaimed gender.

Garlick · 03/11/2015 15:57

(Yes, this does mean you could be raped by a woman.)

Zucker · 03/11/2015 16:02

It's all just so depressing. I feel as a woman that we are being herded down a path with threats of being called bigots or transphobic held over our heads if we don't comply.

Transwomen are a subset of men. Mens facilities should be modified or altered to allow space for transwomen. Women should not be forced to one side to make room for transwomen.

Yes I wonder what would happen in that school if all the girls started to use the neutral changing room?

TalkingintheDark · 03/11/2015 16:07

mathanxiety posted upthread about narcissistic rage, in response to howtorebuild and I agree absolutely that that's what it is.

Complete and utter narcissism - "I want to be seen as a woman and therefore I will compel everyone to accept me as one, even though I'm blatantly NOT one."

I've had many years of dealing with family-based emotional abuse, and the dynamics are scarily similar. The dominant narcissist type is the one who gets to define the roles within the family, and once they have decided that they or someone else has such and such an attribute, that perception becomes an accepted truth, no matter how far from reality it is.

So an abusive parent will portray themselves as a loving, dependable one, no matter how selfish and abusive they are; while their victims are always, always demonised. The child they abuse becomes "known" as lazy/ungrateful/selfish/difficult - in short, the problem one. All projections of the abuser, but all sustained by the dysfunctional family unit which is in thrall to the dominant narcissist(s).

I think something similar is happening here. The narcissistic type of transwoman who just wants to appropriate everything that belongs to women, and cares not one jot for the well being of actual women, is defining the roles with themselves as the victims (abusive parents are similarly always, always the victims in their own eyes of the children they abuse) and those women who speak out against them as the oppressors. A complete distortion of the real dynamics.

It's because I know the damage - the real, lasting damage - that these lies can do that I think the truth matters so much. I think it matters hugely that we don't go along with the idea that transwomen are actually women.

Some pp at the beginning said they couldn't see the point of all these threads (so why click on them, read them and post on them?!) but to me they have a massively valid point.

The more threads like these there are, the more women will read them and have their eyes opened to what is going on, as mine were earlier this year. And eventually I sincerely hope we will reach a tipping point, where the tide really turns and enough women wake up to the way we, women and girls, are yet again being absolutely shafted by this actual abuse of our rights and safety which is masquerading as liberalism. And collectively, we'll be able to do something about it.

Alisvolatpropiis · 03/11/2015 16:09

The ruling with regard to Lila Perry is complete bullshit.

And no do not respect his gender identification as female above the feelings and dignity of actual females/young women.

Because yes, he is a male.

PoundingTheStreets · 03/11/2015 16:11

I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but this comment made by a PP really resonated for me:

I find a lot of trans 'women' see being a woman from a male point of view.

Growing up as a woman in a male-dominated society has a massive effect on how you negotiate the world and the development of your personality. A lot of people fail to appreciate the effect of constant bombardment of gender norms in which women are seen as he default carers/child-rearers/home-makers and a society in which much more conformity is expected in terms of appearance and behaviour (assertiveness is seen as aggression from a female, not being 'feminine' enough leads to insults of 'butch lesbian' etc).

I don't see how changing your sexual organs and appearance and taking hormones can provide you with the historical person-forming experience that a born female has.

Of course, some people will deny that I've described in my third paragraph even exists...

venusinscorpio · 03/11/2015 16:37

Definitely, Pounding. And I've argued with a variety of people on it ranging from those who outright deny socialisation as a woman has any importance (one such transactivist called it a "trope") to many many well meaning individuals (usually men) who say "well yes, I suppose I can sort of see your point, and you could well be right, but what does it really matter to us if we are kind and open our arms and accept that they feel like they are women, it doesn't really cost us anything, they're the mostest opppressed, don't punch down etc". No. As can be seen, it will cost us dearly.

howtorebuild · 03/11/2015 16:38

I think you are correct there is narcissistic rage tactics being played out. I actually didn't attach any of that to a child, which Laila is. I was responding to a poster who described still learning about transgender and feminism something along the lines of adults wanking to your own beauty/fantasy, as it appeared to me as the ultimate form of narcissism.