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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask you about 'White privilege'

161 replies

InTheBox · 30/10/2015 16:58

I'm wondering if any of you know about this or have ever experienced it?

I've been reading a lot about this over the past weeks and I'm still working it out. I've only seen in the US, well actually on Twitter, the 'criming while white' hashtag which whilst humorous really spoke some home truths. I'm familiar with mixed race individuals being fetishised (I have one myself) but not necessarily earning privilege because of it iyswim. I'm not starting the thread to be goady but I'd be interested in your thoughts.

OP posts:
ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 31/10/2015 10:19

I think it was meant to be quotas

RealHuman · 31/10/2015 10:20

I think "quarters" is a mishearing of "quotas".

Screaminlikeabanshee2 · 31/10/2015 10:28

Thank goodness! I was going to ask the same question, about 'quarters' I mean.

Debbriana1 · 31/10/2015 10:28

The most shocking thing that happened to me was when I was pregnant with my daughter was the comments I got about her race from black members of my family. She had already been put on a peddle stool before she was born. How much hair she was going to have and how lucky she was. Everyone wondering what her skin tone was going to be. What she would look like. Would she be more black or white ? Conversation about which gene is stronger, the male or females from both black or white and wether that would affect which colour she would be.

I think that is crazy. All I cared for was having a healthy child. I was made realise that before my child was born she has already acquired privileges a lot of black children will never have.

Six months after she was born I went for a smear test and the nurse that did my test said " wow, your daughter must be half cast. She must look really beautiful" . I was left speechless. The fact that she didn't realise that she had caused an offence showed me that she was not from the uk. She didn't sound Australian so I assumed she might have been from South Africa or Zimbabwe. I had never had an English person use the term before. You hear it a lot in Africa.
The reason why I mentioned Australia is because I once watched and Australian movie where the biracial children where called half cast. They tried to whiten them up by reproducing with them to try and eradicate the aboriginal genes or look. They were taken and put in camps.

Screaminlikeabanshee2 · 31/10/2015 10:29

My other questions is what is a 'black accent'? Is there a universal black accent?

Screaminlikeabanshee2 · 31/10/2015 10:31

Peddle stool? Hmm, Pedestal?

Please take this in the spirit of light heatedness, this slight error just really made me laugh.

StellaAlpina · 31/10/2015 10:34

I think white privilege does exist though is probably greater in the US, I think class is probably just as much of a privilege giver/taker awayer(!) in the UK as ethnicity.

I like to think I recognise my privilege though...

There's a good bit in Watching the English about how shopekeepers will call some women dear and some women madam...I'm white and 'well spoken' and I'm always madam.

One of my best mates is mixed race and she had her DC a little while younger than me (am pregnant with DC1 now) and anyway she often complained/complains about healthcare workers/education professionals patronising her so I sort of mentally prepared myself for my first few appts. thinking 'they might be a bit patronising, don't take it personally, they're very busy and have to explain the same things over and over again' but I have been treated like an intelligent person by everyone. At my booking appt. my gp even said somthing along the lines of 'you look like a sensible person, here's a leaflet about what you can eat, but you've probably researched it all already' - I had!

ThomasRichard · 31/10/2015 10:39

'White privilege' is the privilege of not having to jump the hurdle of a group stereotype before being considered on your individual merits. The same as in the U.S. Presidential race, no one looks at Donald Trump and says, "Oh, wouldn't it be exciting/awful to have a male President," while Hillary Clinton has to jump the "cold woman" hurdle and prove that she can do a "man's job" before her policies are even discussed.

People don't generally do a preliminary mental assessment of a white person to check whether they are "our" sort of white person, they are accepted until their individual characteristics are assessed as good or bad. On the other hand, a BAME person in a white group has to prove that they are 'white' enough, that they are the type of BAME person that can handle being in a 'white' position: of friendship, employment, informal sense of citizenship etc. That they aren't that sort of BAME person: a terrorist, a gangster, a jumped-up immigrant seeking to rip off white people.

wannabetennisplayer · 31/10/2015 10:40

I think a lot of the time white people aren't aware of our advantage/privilege but we just see it as normal and don't necessarily notice that other people are treated differently (same with other types of privilege e.g. gender, sexual orientation).

A couple of examples where I have been aware of my privilege:

I am white but with an Irish surname (and Irish ancestors). I bet when my great-grandparents came to England, they were treated as foreigners and not accepted but, as a white person who was born in the UK and 'sounds English' I am 100% accepted as being English with no qualifiers put on that. A black friend of mine who is just as English as me is always asked where he is originally from. Even when he has told people that he's from x town in England, people still make comments that, well, yes he's partly British but also partly from somewhere else.

I'm also not patriotic, not particularly interested in the success of 'our' team in sporting events, not at all interested in 'important' royal events and I think I can get away with being disinterested or even making negative comments without any comeback or anyone suggesting I don't belong here because of it.

Debbriana1 · 31/10/2015 10:42

What I mean by black accent is, if a black person who is well educated and has good pronunciation but isn't push you can always tell. Tone of the voice is always different. I would say more so with Africans. It's like you don't get the strong African accent but at the same time it's not posh English or any of the other uk accents.

Thanks for the correction. It must mean quotas. Where you need a percentage of people to appear on TVs show or movie. In America I think you need ten percent but in the uk you don't need that but we still offer one black person as token to say that the tv or movie is racially diverse.

Screaminlikeabanshee2 · 31/10/2015 10:45

White privilege is being able to walk into a country pub without everyone turning to stare (for all the wrong reasons) at you or a noticeable lull in conversation as you walk up to place your order.

CuteAsaF0x · 31/10/2015 10:46

ah right! thanks for explaining that.

Screaminlikeabanshee2 · 31/10/2015 10:50

I'm really sceptical about this, surely what you're describing would be an African accent mingled with a British one. Not really a 'black accent'? Same with people from the Carribean, a British accent with a cartibean accent overtone (probably from their parents)?

It's difficult to describe without conducting an experiment.

abanico · 31/10/2015 10:52

Screaminlikeabanshee - there isn't a generic "black" accent but it is often possible to take a guess at someone's origins just by their accent or the way they speak. Think Henry Higgins...

It's a really interesting part of linguistics. Being a mixed raced person who grew up in a very multicultural part of London, I've been exposed to loads and could probably guess quite accurately just from an accent. My school had a lot of asian girls, a lot of white girls and a few black girls (curiously I was the only mixed raced one in my year, but I think that will change in the next generation - my accent/way of speaking is harder to place, I think). My school was an independent, academically strong one so all the girls were well educated, and a lot of them middle class and wealthy, but if you listened to recordings of their voices you'd quite easily be able to guess their ethnic background, even if they were speaking perfectly professionally. I'd even be able to tell the difference between a girl from a black African family and a black Caribbean family; I'd be less familiar with the difference between, say, Indian or Pakistani, but I'd be able to guess they were Asian.

It's also possible with white people as well, if you know what you are listening out for. I have a white, middle class friend born and raised in England, who went to a very good boarding school, and has an accent that reflects this; you'd assume she's the most English middle class person ever. But as soon as she says something like "that shirt needs ironed" or "it's in the press", it is clear that she has some Irish background (her mum is from NI). So someone might say something perfectly acceptable and normal but you'd be able tell where they are from just from what they say - little quirks in vocabulary, subtle differences in pronunciation or phrasing...

BertrandRussell · 31/10/2015 10:58

"Black accent" Hmm

What, like Lenny Henry? Oh, no that's Black Country........

StrawberryTeaLeaf · 31/10/2015 11:00

( Bertrand Grin )

Does she mean MLE?

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 31/10/2015 11:01

I remember watching a TV programme a few years ago where two women were ringing up companies about advertised jobs. One was using an RP accent and the other a more Caribbean accent. It was horrifying how many companies told the RP woman the job was available and the Caribbean sounding woman that the job had been filled.

Retrorocks · 31/10/2015 11:05

White privileged is being able to choose from the best universities without having to consider how white the uni is or wether the university location is is too white.

White privilege is dreaming about where to retire one day, e.g out in the country in a lovely cottage without having to worry about being the only black face in the village and wether they will be driven out by racists, putting 'feelers' out to gauge wether they are racist or not.

White privilege is being able to apply for a job without repeating your own name back to yourself several times to consider how ethnic it sounds for that particular company.

White privilege is staring at a company brochure your thinking of applying to and scanning pictures to see if there are any ethnic minoroties in their.

White privilege is considering a future career without bothering to think...'but hang on ..how many black people are in THAT sector and if I get in will I be able to progress?' E.g Corporate Law in the top city firms as opposed to immigration law (even if the firm accept me, will the clients?)' or in Medicne, Gynaecology' (hardly any) rather than the 'Psychiatry'.(lots of blacks).

Retrorocks · 31/10/2015 11:08

'Typos galore' but I'm sure you get my meaning.

trian · 31/10/2015 11:13

this might interest you re mixed race
www.mix-d.org/

abanico · 31/10/2015 11:15

Also, my first name and surname are from different European countries, both very very white countries - say for argument's sake it's Ulrika Roux. Neither would be common names among black or ethnic minority people. I grew up in a house with white grandparents from yet another European country, who didn't speak English, and that no doubt had a big influence on my speech. My dad is black but I never had any contact with him or his black family, so they had no influence on the way I speak.

So I have spoken to people on the phone, told them my full name, and then when I met them in person they would say "Oh, I thought you were white". Sometimes they just say this with mild curiosity or surprise, which to be honest doesn't bother me as I am fascinated by language and get where they are coming from. Other times, it's with evident disappointment, which is far more bothersome.

I was completely ridiculed in an English class at school once because I struggled to read out a poem that was written in Patois about mixed raced people (John Agard - Half Caste, if you want to look it up). The assumption was that I was a mixed raced person therefore I should be the one to read this poem. I was really reluctant at first because I could read the words on the page and knew they were supposed to be Patois, but I had absolutely no familiarity with that at all, and I am a terrible actress, I can't do other accents to save my life. I was goaded so I read it out eventually, but not in the comedy Jamaican accent that everyone expected me to be able to put on at the drop of a hat, I read it in my South London, brought up by Mediterranean grandparents accent. Which should be fine, but the black girls in the class laughed at me/scolded me for rejecting my black identity, and the white teacher was annoyed at me for not playing ball and being stubborn and making a fuss. Which, ironically, was completely proving the point the poet was making.

So people do assume links between ethnicity and language, sometimes pejoratively.

Debbriana1 · 31/10/2015 11:22

One of the other fascinating thing is when I was talking to my partner about racism is that when I told him, if I was watching something on TV and a black person was racially abused I get affected by it. Or those Africans and the horrible things that's happening to what ever part of Africa I feel like they are talking to me. He could not get his head round that. Reason being that if someone was swearing at a man or white person he sees it as that persons issue and not his.
For me is like re-affirming that my race is not good enough and we are all not the same. He still thinks am talking rubbish. Even though I heard his family use words like negro. I told them no one uses words like that anymore. I had to seek help from my friends on how to deal with it because it was not the N word per say They meant no harm by it. My sister in law was referring to a black actor on TV. Annoying thing though was she said that's what they call black people. I think am the only black person in their nearest of family and friends. The area is predominately white and according my partner 15 years ago you would not have been able to see black or Asians person in the area.

Anyway, what I did for my daughter's first birthday is a manual in form of a letter on how to deal with life when she grows up. I wrote it from the point of view of someone who has grown up without racism and then experienced it later on in life. I am glad I had that opportunity and experience before hand. It gives you a different way of looking at the world. The best way for me is to instil a lot of confidence in her. Try and keep away from most of the negative things about black people and I don't know how am going to do that.

I will asses the situation on how racist life is when she is about fifteen then give it to her. I would not put her through such a burden now. Or in the near future.

BuffytheScaryFeministBOO · 31/10/2015 11:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Debbriana1 · 31/10/2015 11:34

@abanico that is exactly what I was try to say. The best example is the mp for Tottenham David lammy. If I was to hear him speak with his posh ascent I would pick him out of different voices as Being black without looking at his face. Maybe it's just me i don't know.

tobysmum77 · 31/10/2015 11:42

I definitely can't tell talking to people on the phone. Evidenced by the bloke who I was working with at one of our other offices. I thought he was black (just spoken to him on the phone, it was the mental picture I had) guess what....? Totally wrong Wink

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