To ask you about 'White privilege'

[InTheBox]

I'm wondering if any of you know about this or have ever experienced it?

I've been reading a lot about this over the past weeks and I'm still working it out. I've only seen in the US, well actually on Twitter, the 'criming while white' hashtag which whilst humorous really spoke some home truths. I'm familiar with mixed race individuals being fetishised (I have one myself) but not necessarily earning privilege because of it iyswim. I'm not starting the thread to be goady but I'd be interested in your thoughts.

The privilege comes in never having to think about it.

Yes, but why is that privilege? Surely it's 'white advantage'? More privileged would work better, if you have to have the p word.

Maybe I'm being a bit pedantic, but I do think that construct sets aspirations of what everybody should be able to expect quite low.

it is a major issue that needs to be dealt with starting with the deepest recesses of the general publics minds

Have you considered that, to some, that might sound more than a little sinister?

NeedAScarfForMyGiraffe So you genuinely think it doesn't exist just because of a turn of phrase or grammatical issue. I.e It doesn't exist because it's a sweeping statement to say 'all white people have had the benefit of white privilege'? No-one but no-one has suggested that.

In certain circumstances it appears to have worked for certain people. In others, it appears to have backfired... take for example Rachel Dolezal, who attempted to pass herself off as black but turned out to be white. The civil rights activist. I for one don't think it matters one jot what race she is but she felt the need to pass herself off as black to gain more legitimacy.

Using that sort of argument is a diversionary tactic often employed by those who'd rather not address the issue at hand.

I'm denying white priviledge because I don't think it exists, I don't think sweeping generalisations help as not every white person has an advantage over a non white person and not every not white person is disadvanted to white people like some people make out.

Well, there's more to privilege than just ethnicity, but white privilege addresses those privileges that specifically accrue to people who are white. Some people who are white might lack other privileges. I'm quite privileged in many ways (white, superficially straight, relative wealth) but I lack male privilege. I have all kinds of advantages over many people, although not over straight, white, wealthy, educated, middle-class men. I don't think these different kinds of privilege are in competition, however. The whole question of different kinds of privilege is quite nuanced, because, as you say, sweeping generalisations aren't very useful.

Then again, I don't think there can be many non-white people who can say with certainty that they have never been discriminated against on the basis of their race.

Then again, I don't think there can be many non-white people who can say with certainty that they have never been discriminated against on the basis of their race.
Oops- meant to add 'living in the UK'. I don't know about elsewhere.

Being 'White' is a silent privilege that operates in the freedom afforded in not being marked as 'other'.

I have, no doubt, benefitted from white privilege but because I am White I am blissfully unaware of which particular occasions in my life that not being White would have resulted in a different outcome.

That's kind of the insidious thing about privilege, you don't know that you have it.

My Dad and my brother flat out didn't believe me when I said how regularly I was harassed on the street. They'd never harassed any women walking alone in the evening, and they'd never seen it done so clearly it can't be that common, can it? They were speaking from a position of male privilege that they didn't even know they had.

it just kinda minimises how far many non white people have come

Ok, I think I get where you're coming from. Are you saying this privilege talk is sort of like the rhetoric around positive discrimination, where comparisons between whites and non-whites sometimes seemed to imply that non-white people must by necessity be coming from a background imagined as extremely poor, unsettled, chaotic etc.?

So in fact white people have found another way to fetishise the lives of people who aren't white by imagining them as needing yet more helpful interventions from white people, and loudly claiming to have recently checked their own privilege?

I have marked A level. I don't think the names were even on the paper so there simply cannot be an prejudice, although this week's statistics show no one does as bad in exams in the UK as white boys who are not middle class. so there are certainly a lot of complex things going on in determining who does well at what.

Women are very much discriminated in all communities except all female convents and other female only groups. I am sure there is no shortage of discrimination agianst many other kinds of people.

Many thanks, NeedAScarf. I shall bear that in mind.

For me, it's a bit like this...

My postman is always really, really friendly and nice to me. Goes out of his way to help me (he's stopped me in the street more than once having realised I'm on my way out and will miss him delivering a parcel he has, for example).

I made friends with a really lovely lady who lives a couple of streets away from me. She is of Pakistani origin. While I was at her house having a cup of tea the same postman who goes out of his way to help me and is always so friendly rang her bell to give her a parcel and the way he spoke to her was horrible, just horrible. He was like a different person (he couldn't see I was there, the layout of their lounge means I was on the other side of the front door to him).

Maybe he was having a bad day, but I couldn't shake the feeling that he treats her in a COMPLETELY different (far nice) to the way he treats her. THAT'S white privelege IMO.

AdjustableWench NeedAScarfForMyGiraffe I will too bear that in mind. Very very valid point.

www.theguardian.com/society/2015/oct/30/britains-youth-at-risk-of-being-lost-generation-warns-equality-report

^ in other papers its specifically labeled as white boys the most under privileged in the UK.

I can't find the guardian article that linked the names equaling worse results but I know I've read it.

"I'm off to find studies in question but take for example CVs - those with Western or indeed English sounding names will often be called for an interview more so than those with foreign sounding names, even if both candidates have the same qualifications."

I've had a few odd experiences with this as I am white but my real name is a popular one amongst the Jamaican community. I'm very fair skinned and have reddish blonde hair so have turned up for interviews and received some strange looks and comments. Jamaican and other non-white friends think it's possible I've not got as far as interview sometimes due to having a 'non-white' name but of course I've no idea if that's true.

I've a wide circle of friends of various backgrounds. Agree race discrimination isn't just about colour (try being Irish in areas with a high military presence in the 70's as my best friend was) but colour is a quick and easy way to identify 'others' to certain people. And yes certainly when younger and out on nights out with groups of friends was more likely to get stopped and searched or stopped with friends guilty of nothing but 'driving a decent car while black'. It disgusts and infuriates me that this still goes on. It's now my friends' children experiencing this mostly though one Muslim friend who wears hijab still gets the 'terrorist' shite when flying which she has to do frequently for her job. She's surprised when she isn't selected for a search!

Things may be much improved compared to days gone by but there's still an awful lot that needs more improvement.

This:
Sometimes I think white privilege might be better understood by white people as an absence of discrimination due to their skin colour.

and this:
The problem with privilege theory and identity politics though is it makes privilege a personal failing rather than a structural inequality.

I have been told I ought to 'undo my privilege', as if it's somehow my fault that I look 100% white. It pissed me off even more because I'm not 100% white: I detest generalisations. They are not helpful and they just alienate people.

My horrid mother would never ever ever even consider talk of white privilege. But then again she's a bitter old racist far right wing trout.
She would shut this conversation down in the first instance and then attempt to flip it on its head by spouting that 'English' people in this country are now the minority, who aren't allowed to speak their own intolerable and hateful minds and how Muslims, Blacks and immigrants are bringing this 'English' country to its knees - therefore no, there is no such thing as white privilege... I'm sorry. But this is one of the many many reasons why my mother is toxic and contact with her is zilch. It hurts especially because I'm half black and she has done nothing but write off my own negative experiences of living in a quiet leafy white country town since I was young. It hurts that she is so dismissive of my feelings. I'll be watching with interest. I bet she's never felt anxious at the prospect of wether her new neighbors will be stiff and standoffish when meeting for the first time because she's white. Or felt panic when starting a new school in a small town that's not known for its diversity. Or be told that someone was scared of you for weeks after first meeting, thinking that she would be beaten up, not because she saw violent and aggressive behavior from you, but just because you (I) was black. Oh I could go on. Sorry to vent. But yes, I'll be following with interest.

it is easy to not be aware of it if you are white once you are you see it and for me that feels very uncomfortable at times, it is not guilt i feel its unfairness and that makes me feel angry and sad and of course it does not have an impact on my life

like mannequinonthemove I am mixed Asian but pass as white, or foreign looking but have not had racist comments made towards me though I have heard plenty towards people who could be my family but of course my family are different and towards me as a couple with my ex mixed raced boyfriend

this subject has caused real friction on here in the past some people just do not want to acknowledge it or cry black/Asian people are often racist

I'm sure it exists although I think in the UK unlike the US it is more about class than skin colour.

I hope we all can on a daily basis do our best to overcome it. For those of us who live in areas where most people aren't white it becomes even more fascinating. My son is the only white boy in his class which is pretty irrelevant to him , me and his friends as they are all very different boys which has little to do with their skin colour. London is very huge mixture these days of all kinds of people.

I am finding this whole thread very absorbing and thought-provoking, and something about this particular post interests me greatly.

I made friends with a really lovely lady who lives a couple of streets away from me. She is of Pakistani origin. While I was at her house having a cup of tea the same postman who goes out of his way to help me and is always so friendly rang her bell to give her a parcel and the way he spoke to her was horrible, just horrible. He was like a different person (he couldn't see I was there, the layout of their lounge means I was on the other side of the front door to him).

Did the postman actually make unpleasant racial remarks to her, or was he just generally horrible? The reason I ask is because I'm wondering whether you have made an assumption that he was horrible to her because she was asian when in fact there could have been some other cause (such as there had been some previous postal disagreement between a member of her family and the postman).

What would you have thought the reason was if your friend had been white?

Could it be that on some occasions when people are unfairly treated in some way, that it is automatically assumed that it is discrimination due to their skin colour or race rather than anything else?

For instance when someone is passed over for promotion at work, it could be for any number of reasons, (and a white person might feel aggrieved and unfairly treated) but because the person is black, would they automatically assume that they didn't get the job because they have been racially discriminated against?

As always I am really interested to hear other people's opinions and would welcome your views.