To ask you about 'White privilege'

[InTheBox]

I'm wondering if any of you know about this or have ever experienced it?

I've been reading a lot about this over the past weeks and I'm still working it out. I've only seen in the US, well actually on Twitter, the 'criming while white' hashtag which whilst humorous really spoke some home truths. I'm familiar with mixed race individuals being fetishised (I have one myself) but not necessarily earning privilege because of it iyswim. I'm not starting the thread to be goady but I'd be interested in your thoughts.

I think the problem with explaining everything through privilege is that it's actually quite lazy, because there are many different factors that determine how we are treated as individuals. Yes white privilege exists, yes male privilege exists, yes heterosexual privilege exists. BUT it's lazy. If a black woman is born into a wealthy family, she is likely to have greater opportunities and be treated better than a white male born into a poor family. So we should recognise privilege, but we should also recognise that other factors come into play.

You raise an interesting point about possible workplace discrimination bookends

While I certainly don't doubt that this happens, IME it's very easy for applicants to look for an "issue" which rightly causes concern, rather than taking responsibility themselves for unwanted outcomes

The sector I worked in as an agency employer involved a candidate base which was predominantly from a particular community, and I lost count of the times someone would insist that their race had played a part in their rejection - which was a little odd when, as often as not, the person appointed would also be from that same community

DeoGratias : I'm sure it exists although I think in the UK unlike the US it is more about class than skin colour.

I agree with this 100%. In the US, everything is racialised to a level that is utterly mind-boggling to people from most other countries.

White privilege very much exists in the UK, but economic and educational privilege (i.e. class privilege) actually play some of the role white privilege plays in the US. In addition, there are much more 'foreign' white people, who often do not benefit from white privilege in any meaningful way - a poor Polish person is likely to be discriminated against, and is not going to see too many portrayals of people like him/her as the norm. This applies to a lesser extent to UK-born British people (white and otherwise) with strong regional or 'working class' accents.

The thing is, everyone has a combination of ways in which they are are privileged and ways in which they are not. This article is very American, and not totally relevant to the UK, but it speaks to me as someone from a poor background who nevertheless recognises my own privilege.

This test is also very American (it talks about doing your own taxes and going on spring break), but it also addresses the intersectionality of privilege (and I get a result of 'not privileged at all', although I am white/hetero/cis etc).

The problem with white privilege these days is that Britain has a lot of "white" people that you cannot really say have historically or contemporaneously experienced "white privilege".

I mean, how the hell has a Polish plumber experienced white privilege in his life? He was probably born in Communist Poland in pretty repressive conditions, and grew up in an economically depressed environment. Then he comes to Britain, and half the country fucking hates him.

My granddad was identified as "white", even though he was Euro-Asian, and spent his life in Britain confined by the prejudices of others: unable to get work etc. I even think he received poor healthcare at the end of his life because people thought his family wouldn't ask questions because they presumed we were poor immigrants.

My mother is identified as "white", even though the prejudice she experienced as a child was of a kind that you just do not see anymore (the headmistress of her school refused to give her a reference for a job because she was "foreign"). How has she experienced white privilege?

And I aint going to get started on how exactly the English working classes have experienced white privilege?

Strikes me that "white privilege" is just another one of those elitist hammers that are used to batter everyone of a certain skin hue, who isn't part of the elite, round the head.

And isn't the term 'white privilege' in itself racist? It incites and deliberately encourages the assumption that everyone who isn't white will be automatically discriminated against as a matter of course because of their colour.

Within the group 'white people' there will be ugly people and fat people who aren't getting any automatic privilege, and within the group "black people" there will be very attractive people who do get privileges they're unaware of, so in my opinion, and that's all it is of course being an ugly white person (joking, mostly joking) the groups aren't exact or precise and there are other privileges besides white privilege.

dodobookends I disagree with that interpretation though. That isn't what it means. It doesn't mean that everybody who isn't white will be discriminated against. Not at all. It means that white people aren't aware of the privileges awarded to them, because they have never had to fight for them, or fight against a prejudice. So they think that a job is there for the taking, or they think that if you speak well, you'll be heard, or they think that if you're polite and friendly you'll be accepted, why would they not think that, it's always been the case for them. That's white privilege surely.

white privilege does exist. More than a year ago my cousin finished university with a first class degree in accounting and I think finance. He put his cv on line with African sounding name. For months he applied to lots of different places and didn't get any interviews. One day he decided to change his last name and left every thing else the same "English sounding name", his phone could not stop ringing. Some of the calls even came from Japan and Dubai. Lost of them from London. The funny thing was when they had him speak they could not wait to put the phone down.
He was then hired by the nhs after they had told him he was not right for them. He took it. Am glad now he has been offered a new job. A friend of his who he went to university with put him forward for a job where he works. Did and interview over Skype and was told he got it there and then.

From experience the difference between the uk and America is that in the uk people will not say it to your face. The law stops that. But in america your either black or white.

The thing that annoys me most is the racist that think any black person who has done well in life is because of quarters. I don't know if that is the right word for it. The fact that you would not be on British tv if won't for the quarters.

For really 'white' people (eg those who look Scandanavian), I'm not white enough and always get asked what my background is (a very semitic name probably doesn't help). Then for immigrants from non-white countries, they automatically class me as a white person and those of them that bear grudges give me death glares. It's very uncomfortable either way.

I think there are the privileged and disadvantaged among all groups - skin colour has very little to do with it.

I think that the working class problem in the country is a different ball game. From my understanding of it is because of loss of identity. They don't identify with the rest of society and this came about from the closing down of the factories and coal mines in the seventies.
There is something to do with the eradication of their masculinity and they feel like they don't belong. The children of those from the seventies are the ones suffering now. They don't fit into the new working system.
You would say that they are trapped in the past and they can't move forward. I think their lack of privilege is in the fact that their areas have been left to rot.
Or the ones in the south probably just don't have parents that care enough to push them.

Some one may come and correct me here but I think they are in the under class and the current offsprings who are of working age have been given the term NEET.

Hopefully a good sociologist will come and explain this better than am doing.

Deb, on the cousin story which of course is appalling, could he not change how he speaks?It sounds as though that hinders him so surely the solution is changing that?

Two links that might help people understand (white) privilege better. I've not had time to read the post so apologies if already posted. The second has a video that is worth watching.

www.buzzfeed.com/regajha/how-privileged-are-you#.fk4rnR82D

www.buzzfeed.com/dayshavedewi/what-is-privilege#.yqLq4o9kE

Try this

Best simple explanation of privilege I've come across. Straight white male as the lowest life difficulty setting there is.

It is ridiculous to look at one type of privilege in isolation.

So the privileged in society may have the following characteristics:

• financially comfortable
• access to lots of different experiences/ travel/ social/ cultural
• good education
• aspiration
• intelligence
• beauty/ good looks
• good health
• socially at ease
• whiteness
• maleness

But if several of the aspects are missing then so is the 'privilege' of an individual. Many black/ asian people are on balance more privileged than poor white boys who have never left their home town.

I do think the UK is different and less racist than the US because of our different histories. I don't however deny race discrimination exists in the UK.

The postman example above was interesting. It reminded me of how I am treated because I'm quite posh, well off, live in a big house, white etc - I tend to get attention and people comply with my hopefully polite requests. However I often make that happen by speaking clearly, by dressing in a particular way. In other words I choose to play a game and force myself into the clothes, mannerisms or whatever else is needed in a particular situation to get what you need. Being able to convey a kind of natural authority and to speak in certain ways is something most people can do. You go on youtube and yes you can't change your colour but you can learn to speak in a certain way. you can look at how people dress who have the jobs or husband you want etc etc.

I think it is a very interesting thread and I try all the time to ensure I treat everyone fairly and equally and in fact I judge people on how they treat those in their lives from whom they need to garner no favour more than how they treat people they are sucking up to.

However my greatest privilge is not my white with brown spots (freckles) skin colour (my skin type is probably the worst on the planet in a bikini as it has two settings white or bright red sun burnt) but the fact I am not ill - happy and healthy. I'd put that above money or accent or skin colour any day.

However I think it's really important to ensure we all fight against all forms of discrimination wherever they appear and do what we can every day to fight unfairness.

How can one change the way they speak? I suspect the poster's cousin who struggled to get a job didn't use gangland slang, rather he might have been well spoken with a perfectly acceptable standard of English, but it might have been evident from his accent that he grew up in an African household. My neighbours are Ghanaian, their son is the same age as me, was born here, went to the same school etc, but the influence of his parents' accent on his own is clear. If you heard him speak on the phone you'd definitely be able to take a guess that he was of African origin, but he'd be speaking in a perfectly professional way. Just as a Geordie, Scouse, Cornish or Irish accent might be evident (and I'm sure some prejudice would come with those sometimes as well...). It's hard to completely erase your accent and replace it with RP, and it's also not really a good solution in my view, people shouldn't be expected to do that.

@deogratias he does not have an African accent but more black sounding.

I thought that privilege walk video was very good. I do think intersectionality is important. White privilege is only one element of the picture. If you take the example of the BAME boys from my DC's prep school (economic privilege & educational privilege) who are going on to schools like St Paul's and Harrow and compare them to white boys in a deprived area going to a mediocre school then white privilege is at least partially cancelled out by the other privilege. If you compare them to white boys that went to the same schools then white privilege is still relevant.

I was promoted to supervise a bunch of middle aged black men when I was in my early twenties and working for a security company. I didn't give a shit about that job and I wasn't good at it. Management was mostly white.

I changed the way I spoke when I was in the UK. Like DeoGratias, I'd had one upbringing in my home country, which led me to expect that people would comply with my polite requests, then I felt a perceived lack of status in the uk (this was a very gradual realisation). I can do 'rp' when I want to. I don't bother any more. But for a while, I felt I needed to. Not everybody has the 'ear' to do that though.

I think white privilege does not only affect people in the uk and the USA. The amount of black people I know that bleach is a lot. I know so many that when am walking down the street I am able to tell if someone has. Mostly the ones who would have been considered dark skin.

The whole reason why people do this is to improve their lives. That is how I look at it.

In Africa the lighter you are the more attention you get? The oppotunity you get. A lot of men have started to get in to bleaching too.

Being lighter has privileges that a lot of people of darker shade aspire to whether they admit to or not. I think that is why when black or Asian people are a bit it sensitive around it the topic. The root of all racism. It's something you can't change or even try to disguise whether you wanted to or not.

The lack of confidence a lot of black women have with their hair whether they realise or not is immense. The best way to test it is by asking someone whether they will walk out the door with there real natural hair that has not been permed, straighten, or having a weave or wig. I think in the uk you will not find very many. This is all down to privileges you get when you have hair that is more European.
I know that a few people will say that it's because of difficulty with combing and looking after it. I would be one of those people. I just can't get a comb through mine after two days of not touching it. But the negative comment is was worse. Blue ivy would have tales to tell and she is not even 5.
I was once ambushed in Morison the supermarket by a woman asking me why I have a weave on my head. Calling me a sell out. I could not believe it. I remember telling her to mind her own business. Still followed me round lecturing me. I was about 19. I didn't know how to defend my self with issues like that.

Black women's hair is so sensitive that most black men will stay well away from commenting. I would look at it in the same way a European woman will ask "does my bum look big in this" we all know what the answer should be unless you Kim k.

Wow.............. Black women have a lot to contend with. HOw do you prepare a daughter for that.

Have only skimmed the thread. Obviously in America there is more going on than just race. BUT, white privileged is being the benefit of the doubt in social situations, while black peers are under suspicion from the start. This is particularly important in situations such as job interviews, hospital emergency rooms or police encounters. The phenomenon us real.

Debriana, what does doing well (a black person on american tv) because of ''quarters'' mean ? Do mean they are 1/4 black?

being given that is!