DS is transgender - or is he?

[LemonadeApex]

I’ve NCd for this as it's not just my confidentiality at stake, but I’m a regular. I’m posting in AIBU because it’s where I normally hang out and also for traffic as I feel pretty desperate for support.

My teenage DS has just come out to me and DH as transgender. He says he wants to pursue gender reassignment via hormone treatment and possibly eventually surgery. He says he’s ‘wondered’ about this for a while but only seriously been considering it for about a week. He says he is about 70% sure it’s what he wants. He wants to get started with hormone therapy asap. He seems to have done a great deal of reading on the web and has a clear, if intellectualised, grasp of what lies ahead medically, but he doesn’t seem to have given much thought to what comes next in daily life, eg who/when to tell, when/what he wants his younger siblings to know, the implications for his sexuality (he has zero sexual experience with either sex). He finds it very difficult to express what he feels, what’s actually going on in his head or why he wants this. He’s not great with words at the best of times though.

Obviously my foremost concern is to support him absolutely 100% in what he wants and needs. He’s a lovely kid, clever, funny, kind, responsible, and I just want him to be happy. I’m painfully aware of the statistics correlating gender transition and depression/suicide and don’t want to make a difficult path even harder for him by being anything other than accepting of his choices. At the same time, I’m feeling alarmed and upset, and so, so sad. I love him just as he is. Why can’t he feel the same way? If he goes ahead with this and ends up living as a woman, changing his name etc, the person he is now will be gone forever. He may not want us to mention his birth name or have photos of him as a boy, and of course we'd need to respect that. But it will be like he died. I can’t even type it without crying.

I’m also scared he's making a horrible mistake. Don’t most gender dysmorphic kids know they’re in the ‘wrong’ body from an early age? Aren’t they desperately distressed by the time they get to puberty? This isn't how I'd describe him on either count. He’s at an age where it’s normal to be consumed with angst about who and what you are. I think he’s also anxious about making the transition from boyhood to manhood. Is it possible that he’s conflating that confusion with things he’s reading on the web about other people’s gender dysmorphic experiences? I assume this is not a path many people go down in error, but we’re quite a liberal household and I think he'd be less afraid of experimenting with other identities than most kids his age. I want to support him if this is what he truly wants, but I’m also scared of supporting him so well with my knee-jerk liberalism that we all end up on a conveyor belt that ruins his life.

I’m very scared of getting this wrong for him and could really use some support and advice. If anyone can help with their insights and experiences, I would be so grateful. In particular, if anyone here is, or is related to, a young person who has been through this and has decided it was not the right path for them, I would be very grateful to hear your story – in absence of any anecdotal evidence to the contrary, I think I have to assume that he knows instinctively what is best for him. We are in the UK and he is under 18, if that helps anyone advise me on what to expect next. Apologies if I've given any offence with my attitudes or terminology btw. I'm in uncharted waters here. I am also distraught, so please be kind.

Thanks Fine.

LemonadeApex Re I'm very interested by the number of references in the various info sources I've been directed to that make mention of ASD and gender dysphoria. There's Asperger's in the family and I strongly suspect him of being on the spectrum but we've never pursued a diagnosis as it's never held him back. So that may well be something that counselling and assessment can help us with, and in turn may help him with his feelings of gender confusion.

I've heard this too and met a trans person with Aspergers. I think speaking to someone from one of the Aspergers or ASD/utism charities would be a good way to get info for yourself. It may or may not change how you feel or how ds feels if he finds out more, but I'd suggest you find out first.

You can Google around a lot for gender critical stuff.

I just found this, it is by a transwoman but is gender critical.....

queenthingy.tumblr.com/post/96159236820/what-gender-critical-means-to-me-feminist

As I said before, a good place to look might be on Facebook under 'Discussing gender critical & gender identity'. Some of this will cover gender critical stuff.

As you say Bodies and the clothes we cover them in are at the fundament of the entire social order when you're his age. I have heard trans being compared to the identities we might have sought out (I am 50) perhaps twenty or thirty years ago - goth, punk whatever. This is clearly not the case for all but I personally do think it is the case for some.

That is much scarier as a pierced nose or other body part will heal, a punk hair-do can grow out, clothes can change etc etc. This does go deeper but I also think we are all probably 'thinking' more and sometimes that may mean thinking too much about our identity. Most women do not think about being women (I would imagine), they just are, so if he is thinking he may want to be a woman that is a lot of thinking for a young mind.

Do please make room for fun, gender neutral family stuff which will hopefully give him breathing space.

Just my opinion but in your shoes I would be very careful about doing anything like going and buying clothes together - e.g. I would not do it unless it felt 100% right to do.

Good luck.

Gender critical is a school of thought that the only real situation where sex (in terms of male/female) matters is when you're looking to reproduce, if you need to treat somebody medically and perhaps it also forms part of what is attractive/non attractive about potential sexual partners (though it's difficult to say on this one - it might be that in a culture free of the idea of "gender" the idea of being attracted or not attracted to a particular sex is as inconsequential and personal as any other part of a person's appearance and body shape.)

In every other way, it does not matter one jot if you are male or female. There is no such thing as a "masculine" activity or a "feminine" activity, these are just social constructs. There is nothing inherently female about skirts, there is nothing inherently male about sports, any clothing, interest, or stereotype is just that. Gender critical thinking disputes the idea of gender difference being innate and argues that it is constantly caused and reinforced by our society. The book Delusions Of Gender is a really good one to read about debunking the studies about "male brains" and "female brains". It does not discuss transgender issues at all, so it's safe and unbiased from that point of view.

It doesn't negate the fact that these social constructs are extremely present in our society and can be extremely difficult to go against. It just says that talking about a gender spectrum is not particularly different from talking about a gender binary, it doesn't solve the problem at all and it serves only to keep us trapped in the problem whereby our society deems some perfectly arbitrary things to be "male" things and other arbitrary things to be "female" things. Indeed, talking about a spectrum just reinforces that there are two ends of that spectrum. For this reason many people consider a gender critical viewpoint to be anti-trans. This is not helped by the fact that many loud gender critical voices do often speak (or write) about trans people using their biological sex or pronouns or generally speak in terms which most people consider offensive in relation to the trans community. Some of it can be REALLY horrible. There is a complex undercurrent and long history which explains this (whether it excuses it is another thing) but it's not hugely important to go into here - for now I want you to know that there are many people who are gender critical but who totally respect that trans people exist, are real people with feelings, going through some really fucking difficult shit, and do not seek to criticise them directly but more the movement which is (in their opinion) upholding rather than "smashing" the binary.

It is not to be confused with conservative views which seek to place people in a box related to their biological sex and leave it at that, believing that men and women "should be" men and women (meaning they should adhere to gender roles).

It also doesn't mean that gender critical people want all people to be androgynous and only ever do things which have no gender bias. It's more that they want to remove the gender bias from everything, because it doesn't make any sense and it is unnecessarily constricting and oppressive. Gender critical people normally identify as feminists because a big part of this is recognising that female gender roles are more oppressive than male gender roles. But not all feminists are gender critical.

It is a shame that the two groups find it so difficult to commune because the more I read from both sides the more I think that the goal - to remove gender roles and encourage anybody to be whatever they want without being constricted by gender - is totally the same. It's just that the trans community tend to think the gender critical lot hate them and think they shouldn't exist, and the gender critical people tend to think that the trans community is a bit cult-like and worrying, and find it frustrating that (in their opinion) they are going about the idea of "smashing gender" in the wrong way. There is a lot of nastiness flung around in the middle. And it's really, really difficult to find balanced information at the moment. You kind of have to read around both sides and swallow the bile a bit, because it's too difficult to find anything useful without it. I think this is what the point is about the gender clinic - because if somebody totally believes that they have a revolutionary and wonderful solution, they're going to unconsciously sell that to you because it's what they believe in. Look at research and educate yourself from source, because a lot of people will pick and choose what they look at - BOTH sides are totally guilty of this, I've seen two opposite blogs dissect the same piece of nonconclusive, old and flawed research to support their own agenda, FFS!

Hope this helps and I didn't crosspost with a giant fight (which I predict).

Oh good no fight :) (I hope not anyway)

Italian makes a good point which I left out: Some transgender people are gender critical. It's not as simple as all gender critics vs all trans positive people.

BertieBotts great post.

Thanks BB, that was really helpful. Tbh, Gender critical thinking disputes the idea of gender difference being innate and argues that it is constantly caused and reinforced by our society just sounds like common sense to me, which is one reason why I'm having difficulty getting my head round DS's announcement, because it all just seems so unnecessary to me. It would make more sense (although probably not to me!) if we were a family which adhered to rigid gender stereotypes that DS found it hard to see beyond or felt he couldn't transgress, but almost nothing could be further from the case.

OP I understand what you say about your son and his feelings of confusion as he stands on the threshold of adulthood. I have a 16yo DS too. DS has a friend who was born a girl and went through puberty. He has now entered the VIth form as a boy and uses a male name that he has chosen. DS and his friends are a lovely group and have supported this boy in his choices which have been discussed openly.

What I would say is that things are different for teens now than they were in the eighties when I was a teen. They often talk about their sexuality and at least three of his female friends have declared themselves bisexual. Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. But it is clear to me that these confused feelings are worked out much more in the open than they used to be. And there's a lot on the internet about it all.

For some of them I am sure these feelings of confusion will pass and be resolved. I'm not belittling their experiences, I think it is positive that they are so open. But it is clear to me that things are different for them than they were for us.

the gender critical people tend to think that the trans community is a bit cult-like and worrying

This is my biggest worry. DS has gone almost overnight from being a child so squeamish he literally faints at the sight of blood to being able to talk quite calmly about transition surgery, open genital wounds etc. It's as though he's been hypnotised or...dare I say, brainwashed. People are telling me to keep him away from the internet but it's just not that simple - he's 16 not 6. He needs the internet for his school coursework and also is teaching himself web programming at a high level. It's just not practical to intervene in that way - and he can just access the web at school anyway. That kind of heavyhanded approach would be likely to completely trash communication between him and us too, which is the one good thing in this picture atm. Don't really know how to tackle this tbh.

George, yes, good points. Feel like I'm holding my breath meantime tho...

There's no rush though, is there? I mean, he can take his time with the decision as puberty has already done its thing?

Did you read the blog post I linked the other day from a woman (former transman) who detransitioned? I can't link again as on phone.

Thinking of you.

If he does get on line can he try and stay away from reading too much about 'being trans'? Because you will need to trust him, as you rightly say he can access at school etc, you will need to develop this trust area and perhaps make the case for this! Perhaps the case that waiting and reading less, or limiting himself how much he reads (perhaps that he does only read at home) might help. Could you present it as him enabling himself to formulate some ideas himself without any help or pressure from others. If he can see the wisdom of this himself then he may be willing to submit to your ideas for his own benefit.

If he really is trans he will still be trans in a month, a year etc so there is no rush. This way he might have a better understanding of himself and his life and he will possibly make wiser decisions.

Can you lead him to these conclusions and let him join the dots? Imagine if he had joined an unusual religion you and his dad did not approve of. He may want your blessing and likewise you might say well 'convince' us, in your own words not in the words of your religion's leader or the local group etc, show us this is real for you. So in the same way I think he needs to know is right for him.

I hope that all makes sense!

Being gay or bi is completely different. That is simply sexual attraction.
To say you are another gender when you have no idea what it is to be or feel like the other gender is clearly different.
Can he articulate what it is he feels is wrong with his current body? What he thinks being a woman is and how it feels different from being a man?
Surgery, hormones these things are huge. We take it for granted now and see plastic surgery as the norm but it shouldn't be. It is permanently altering a healthy body in a risky way.
My best friend did have a phase of feeling like she was trans. She cut all her hair off and used to bind her chest, go by a male name and wore male clothes and shaved her face throughout her teen years. Then she felt differently and no longer feels she is a man. She is extremely glad she wasn't given hormones or surgery!

I'm about five years down the road from you, Lemonade, my DS told me he wanted to transition to become a woman when he was 16. He's now 21, and whilst he's still thinking about it (and is still convinced that he'll end up living as a woman in due course) he hasn't done anything to progress that. He's happy for me and the rest of the family to use the masculine pronoun, and to call him by his masculine name (I did ask him, in case people think I'm being disrespectful, I accept that others may prefer to be addressed differently - I don't accept that anyone can make that choice for him).

He also has a diagnosis of autism, and I was told by more than one of the HCPs involved in his diagnosis and support that it's not unusual for teenagers with high functioning autism to explore different gender identities, but I've not looked into the research myself.

I did have, and continue to have, some difficulties with this, not because of DS - he'll continue to be the beatiful, kind, witty person I gave birth to and raised to adulthood, whatever happens and whoever he turns out to be, and I'll continue to love and support him. It scares me, though, that his path through life is likely to be a lot more difficult than it would have been if he had just fitted neatly into one of the little boxes society makes for us all.

Sorry for the ramble, which I suspect is of little or no help to you. Just letting you know, really, that there are probably a lot more parents in your situation than you'd think, and that we all go muddling through.

Thanks all, and thanks MoR, because actually it really is helpful to hear about other people in the same situation, even if there are no firm conclusions - in fact particularly if there aren't, maybe.

George: There's no rush though, is there?

Well, no, not in a practical sense. And I do realise it's a situation that isn't amenable to pressure anyway. In my shoes, I think most people might be anxious for some sense of resolution, though. Coping with uncertainty isn't my strong suit at the best of times ... but, as I was roundly told upthread, it's not about me.

All calm today, though DS seems very subdued. It's impossible to talk with the younger DCs around though, so maybe tomorrow when they're back at school we'll get a chance to chat some more.

It needs to be given time, it might take years. If you struggle with the uncertainty which is of course understandable, get some support for yourself. But he will need time. Time and a listening ear, which you are doing. But listening isn't the same as getting him to talk, I don't think. He may feel the step he has taken of making you aware of his feelings is enough for now.

Yes, fair point about listening not being the same as getting him to talk. We've only talked openly the once, the day before I started this thread, and I don't want him to think that he might as well not have bothered telling us since nothing's changed or improved as a result. So I want to check in with him about what he wants to happen next, and about the idea of starting some counselling, and see what he wants, but obviously after that I will let him take the lead. He has a tendency to brood though, so I also see it as part of my job to remind him that we are available to listen, in case he's getting bogged down in his inner world. I'm not going to force him into 'heavy' conversations that make him squirm though!

I do realise that my own needs are beside the point as far as he is concerned, which is why, among other reasons, I posted here. DH is reading, I believe, but this thread was largely for my own sanity in a situation where I felt short on reference points and out of my depth. People have been great despite the lack of an explicit AIBU - which at the time might have been along the lines of: AIBU to feel appalled even though I want to be supportive. (I feel less appalled now, before anyone flames me for that.)

No flaming, you are doing brilliantly.

How are things going, OP?

Just dropped by to update, to thank those MNers who have supported me here and by PM and to apologise profusely for all the PMs I haven't managed to reply to - just not sure where the time goes.

DS is still his lovely self, jogging along with school and home life. He shows no interest in presenting himself as a girl/woman or being known by a female name/pronouns at present, and appears in no real distress though presumably things are on his mind. He has talked further very little on this subject, despite my having made it clear he always can. Afaik, he has greatly cut down his internet trawling, partly because he knows we have concerns about the nature/quality/provenance/agenda of what he is reading, and partly perhaps because he knows that help is at hand and he no longer needs to do all the legwork himself.

We have found what we believe to be an excellent counsellor, who is very knowledgeable and experienced in matters of gender confusion and teenage issues. She is connected with the GIC at the Tavistock, so I have confidence in her credentials and also she can streamline the referral process if DS decides to go that route. She is very supportive and non-judgemental, but also not asleep to the tidal wave of gender questioning that seems to be occurring among DS's generation so she is curious and exploratory as well, which is important (to me) because I completely don't understand why gender should matter in this day and age, most especially to the extent that anyone would contemplate surgically removing their genitals.

So we are all embarking on a journey together. Now that the surprise of DS's announcement has worn off, we are all much calmer. As ever, my only real concern is that DS is happy and feels free to be himself. Which is all any of us want, isn't it?

I will be watching this currently unfolding thread with interest, as some of the issues are the same, and thought any worried parent trawling through the threads at some later date might appreciate a link to it.

Good luck OP. Your and your son sound wonderful xx

I've read this thread with interest as my 13 year .old DS (HF Aspergers) has recently - with the intermediary of his HOY - announced he thinks he's gay. Neither DH or I could give a hoot as long as he's happy but he still talks about "When I get married/have children" (of course that's possible whatever the sex of his eventual partner) so I'm not convinced he's quite sure of anything ATM .....

Hi LemonadeApex, not sure if you still post here and I know this thread is a year old but I would love an update. I too have been hit with this announcement from my 16 year old son out of the blue and trawling online led me to your thread. Feeling very confused and actually quite depressed at the moment. It's very difficult to see your child hurting.

I think the best thing you could do for your son is to support him in feeling comfortable within himself. It sounds like he's trying to figure out his place in the world and has become so focused on the idea that he may be transgender that he thinks gender reassignment surgery will solve everything. It won't. Take the focus off questions about your son's gender and discuss how he feels about himself in general. I suspect that your son is not transgender but rather is trying to figure out his identity. Counselling may be beneficial in helping him find and accept himself. Again, the focus should not be on accepting that he is transgender but in helping your son feel comfortable in the male body he is in. If his feeling that he is transgender persists after all of that, then it can be considered. You sound like an incredibly supportive and loving mum, best of luck to you all

@LemonadeApex and @soconfused321 – long shot, but wondering if either of you are still on MN and, if so, what happened with your DSes. Mine is currently in a similar place – now aged 17 and having said they think they are trans for a year.

It's still very much a thing that they occasionally talk about rather than do anything about, although they say they would like to in the future. Not sure if this is a reaction to puberty or if I should expect it to be more than that, especially once they go to university.

I've name changed for this. Thanks