DS is transgender - or is he?

[LemonadeApex]

I’ve NCd for this as it's not just my confidentiality at stake, but I’m a regular. I’m posting in AIBU because it’s where I normally hang out and also for traffic as I feel pretty desperate for support.

My teenage DS has just come out to me and DH as transgender. He says he wants to pursue gender reassignment via hormone treatment and possibly eventually surgery. He says he’s ‘wondered’ about this for a while but only seriously been considering it for about a week. He says he is about 70% sure it’s what he wants. He wants to get started with hormone therapy asap. He seems to have done a great deal of reading on the web and has a clear, if intellectualised, grasp of what lies ahead medically, but he doesn’t seem to have given much thought to what comes next in daily life, eg who/when to tell, when/what he wants his younger siblings to know, the implications for his sexuality (he has zero sexual experience with either sex). He finds it very difficult to express what he feels, what’s actually going on in his head or why he wants this. He’s not great with words at the best of times though.

Obviously my foremost concern is to support him absolutely 100% in what he wants and needs. He’s a lovely kid, clever, funny, kind, responsible, and I just want him to be happy. I’m painfully aware of the statistics correlating gender transition and depression/suicide and don’t want to make a difficult path even harder for him by being anything other than accepting of his choices. At the same time, I’m feeling alarmed and upset, and so, so sad. I love him just as he is. Why can’t he feel the same way? If he goes ahead with this and ends up living as a woman, changing his name etc, the person he is now will be gone forever. He may not want us to mention his birth name or have photos of him as a boy, and of course we'd need to respect that. But it will be like he died. I can’t even type it without crying.

I’m also scared he's making a horrible mistake. Don’t most gender dysmorphic kids know they’re in the ‘wrong’ body from an early age? Aren’t they desperately distressed by the time they get to puberty? This isn't how I'd describe him on either count. He’s at an age where it’s normal to be consumed with angst about who and what you are. I think he’s also anxious about making the transition from boyhood to manhood. Is it possible that he’s conflating that confusion with things he’s reading on the web about other people’s gender dysmorphic experiences? I assume this is not a path many people go down in error, but we’re quite a liberal household and I think he'd be less afraid of experimenting with other identities than most kids his age. I want to support him if this is what he truly wants, but I’m also scared of supporting him so well with my knee-jerk liberalism that we all end up on a conveyor belt that ruins his life.

I’m very scared of getting this wrong for him and could really use some support and advice. If anyone can help with their insights and experiences, I would be so grateful. In particular, if anyone here is, or is related to, a young person who has been through this and has decided it was not the right path for them, I would be very grateful to hear your story – in absence of any anecdotal evidence to the contrary, I think I have to assume that he knows instinctively what is best for him. We are in the UK and he is under 18, if that helps anyone advise me on what to expect next. Apologies if I've given any offence with my attitudes or terminology btw. I'm in uncharted waters here. I am also distraught, so please be kind.

The internet is responsible for the majority of these kids thinking they're trans. They get carried away on these sordid sites and it turns into anxiety because its something they don't understand and didn't need to know about.
That C4 doc 'Girls to Men' was sickening. But there we go, C4 will do anything to be 'edgy' and 'groundbreaking'.

LemonadeApex I am really sorry you are going through this it must be awful.

Re Sorry if I have come across as self-interested. you have most definitely NOT come across as self-interested.

You said in your OP I think I have to assume that he knows instinctively what is best for him. I am not sure teenagers always know what is best for them. To think this for a week is a very, very short time. I think you should proceed with extreme caution.

For some people who transition there is a desperate need to change their body and how they are identified. It must be truly awful to feel you should be a man or women when you are not but the case of your son is someone who only feels 70% sure and has only felt this way for a week!

*LemonadeApex8 it may be worth finding out where all this is coming form. Has he formerly been uncomfortable with his body or his identify?

There is a group on Facebook (USA group) called Discussing gender critical & gender identity, this has 'pro' trans and 'anti' trans information, existing side by side, it is a forum discussion and may help you, although I would say it can be quite 'anti' at times, so you do need to be careful. I am suggesting you may wish to take a look at this not your son.

It may be interesting for him to tell you why he thinks he is a girl or a woman or why he associates with that. Feeling uncomfortable in his body or himself does not mean he should be the opposite gender.

I agree with Cheby ... when they say... OP I don't know whether this in unfounded or not but I have seen it reported that young people can often be encouraged move very quickly towards transition by friends online, and I would want to start an open dialogue with him about any online influence

You said Yes, that's an issue, for sure. He's very webby and has a particular online friend who is trans.

This would be a very much a concern to me that he is getting sucked into his friend's world, easy to do with a temporary love of horses or motorbikes (speaking from experience as one who now likes neither!) but much harder if it results in irreversible choices.

It would be very good to know why he feels like a woman/girl. I sometimes think 'trans' feels like a word for not-at-home-in-my-body but not sure when actually to be 'transsexual' used to mean wanting to be the other sex. Could he perhaps be 'gender non-conforming'. Not wanting to look or perhaps most of all act like a typical macho male?

Re cleaty re I really would not be getting in touch with transgender organisations at this stage. From talking to trans people one of the criticisms is that these organisations tend to confirm that people are Trans and dismiss doubts. Not helpful when your DS is basically so unsure himself. I agree and...

Cleaty ... Transitioning is a serious business and the hormones people take have serious long term negative health consequences. There is no way this should be actively encouraged. Very frightening. I agree. very wise words.

Thinking of you too, 3littlebadgers.

ExasperatedAlmostAlways has mentioned lots of things that are helpful here... "A child and my kids school is transitioning she is nine and came back after the holidays as the other gender.... it's something that has apparently always been obvious to her parents. She wanted to always dress as a girl not a boy, wanted girls toys not boys, has girl friends etc, has wanted to be called a girls name and was distressed as a boy."

-Quite a lot of things there.
-'it's something that has apparently always been obvious to her parents'
-not a vague feeling

• AND still I might wonder what exactly are 'boy's' or 'girl's' toys since my very 'boyish' boy carried a doll around tucked in his top one day and my girl loves climbing trees and always wears trousers and really dislikes dresses!

There really is much more to this than just clothes or toys, IMHO.

I also think it is really hard to say that the professional will always know whether someone is trans or not. There are people who go all the way through with an operation and then change their mind, what were the professionals doing there? I do not believe this is something one can 'diagnose' like the flu, it is hard (I would imagine) especially if tans people are all talking to each other and sharing experiences on line, how easy is it for people to absorb others experiences, I have felt like this for a few days could become I have always felt like this because actually I have read so much on line and convinced myself that this is true for me! (disclaimer - Maybe, who knows, I am not a professional but I have read a lot on line about this topic.)

I am just saying I would not assume professionals will always know everything!

OP, re intersex people is very difficult I would not confuse things for him or you by thinking about that, if he were intersex he would have been born intersex.

OP re Except that to access the treatment he currently feels he wants, he would presumably be expected to aspire to some kind of generalisable norms? (The exact norms many bio women have rejected…) Confused… (and worried at this point that it's me who has been forcing my orthodoxy on him...)

This is one reason it is such a minefield, many women do not want to dress or act or look a certain way. So I don't think any of this is innate, it is all cultural, but think even though it is constructed it is 'real' too.

Real in that it is how some express their sex in society, by performing a gender role that says 'I am female' so I must like pink or play with this or wear that (very simplistic). I don't think that means it is not real, but it means it is to some degree a learned quality. BUT we learn from our friends, TV, the internet, society, not just from home.

He sounds confused and I think you need to just love him, be open but cautious, not push him in any direction (or totally try and bar the door to anything forever as this may breed resentment and might make him want it more!) and try and help him have the space to make decisions in a non-pressurised way.

Which I am very sure you are doing and will do as you sound totally sensible.

You may wish to read up on gender identities etc, and there is a LOT to read up but remember that not all of this is true for everyone.

And O.p you can be a feminist AND a girly girl well of course a feminist can be anything she wants to be! But the problem with the girly girl stuff is thaht what are we saying about girls who do not enjoy things we normally think of as 'girly' are they any less girls! No. And the same for boys who are not 'macho'!So if your son is not into boxing or racing or football or whatever it doesn't make him any less male or a man (to be) but I think the trans issue is more about how he feels about his own body (TO ME that is the issue) rather than what he likes to do in his spare time.

Could it be that if he enjoys being around a trans friend he is thinking maybe he is trans?

This site (despite the odd name) is very good, in as far as I have seen it. I am recommending this for you and not your ds. I think your ds needs to spend less time on line thinking about this issue and more time just being himself and working out what he thinks and not what everyone else on the internet thinks!

The site states... "Remember as you read this site; Transsexuals and transgendered people are good people, worthy of our respect, and even of our admiration. Nothing in this material is meant to imply otherwise. If you are a transsexual or transgendered person: You have value as a human being. You have the right to be respected, valued, and even celebrated as the gender to which you identify and aspire."

And I believe this is true. I also believe that not everyone who briefly thinks they may be trans is actually trans.

sillyolme.wordpress.com/faq-on-the-science/

I will support them and make sure they get the right support to work out what they want and get them there.

The ops does support him. Grieving is an common feeling that is acknowledged and entirely normal when a child comes out.

I agree with many of the last few posters.
I just worry that this whole transgender thing has got completely out of hand.
I have respect for the people who really do have to go through this difficult journey.

But now it seems that every where you turn, tonnes and tonnes of our children and pre-teens are considering this. Quite a few of our young people, go from feeling a bit strange in their developing bodies, questioning their feelings, to jumping to this extreme.
Fed by the Internet, it just seems to have got completely out of control.
I find this very worrying.

I think any responsible parent epuld be extremely concerned about encouraging their child down such a drastic pathway.

Teen years are tough and any parent would be concerned that their child may see changing their gender as the answer to these confusing feelings. Especially when it involves medication and surgery.

Being a good parent isn't about supporting your child 'no matter what.'

And yes - I think the trams issue is more about constructions of masculinity than about femininity - but that's for another thread.

Ubik. It is ALL about supporting your child no matter what. That doesn't mean blindly letting them do whatever they want. It means supporting them to get the support and advice they need and if the conclusion is that they are trans then supporting them through the transition regardless.

Too much of this threat implies that being trans is wrong or just a phase when it is not.

Gay people didn't come out 30 years ago. They got married, had a family and are only just coming out. They didn't have the Internet then and they didn't get the info they needed. That's where trans people are now.

Tbh does it matter if the OPs son is right or wrong?

Either way counselling is the best way to explore his feelings

Being trans and being gay are not the same thing. Homosexuality has existed as long as people have. Your child could decide they are gay and a few years later may decide they are heterosexual or not
Being transgender involves taking hormones and even surgery. It's drastic. A huge decision. I would feel similar about marriage at 16 or pregnancy.

OP you are lovely and brilliant and I'm sure that whatever he decides to do your son will appreciate your love and support through this.

Keep talking to him about why he feels this way, and what he would like to do. It may well be a phase inspired by his online friends. I'm not saying don't take him seriously, but also realise that he's at an age where everyone struggles with identity and defining who they are and who they want to be.

Counselling would be the way forward, he would need it before he could transition anyway and it would help him identify why he feels this way.

You are absolutely entitled to have feelings. You recognise that your son is the one going through this, and you are supporting him 100% but you wouldn't be human if you didn't have feelings. And nobody who hasn't gone through this can know how they would react, feelings aren't logical.

My child is currently living as the opposite gender.

For us it has been going on for many years.

DC came to me with this at the age of 6/7, I thought it was a phase and didn't particularly support it to begin with.

It became more and more apparent over time that dc wasn't happy so began changing their look, then began to get mistaken for the gender they wish to be (trying to be vague).

So at the age of 9 I let dc live as who they want to be for a while. I had still convinced myself it was just a phase, something my child would grow out of.

We are now 2 years in, we have been through some really, really hard times, lost people who we thought were close to us, even had to move.

I was, and am, very good at putting all the negatives in the mix for my child, I feel that if they hear all the negative aspects and still want to go ahead then they are clearly very serious about this.

I went to the GP, who referred us to the local mental health unit where dc gets counselling, and they referred us to a specialist clinic where we get a lot of help.

In all honesty I had a look on Mermaids (it takes about a week to join) and it annoyed me, although the people who run it are really lovely,but there are a lot of members who say 'My son likes pink so is trans' etc and it frustrates me.

I wouldn't worry about your dc showing up at the doctors and getting hormones etc quickly, it takes a lot of time to even get the referrals and even longer than that to get any sort of diagnosis and they are very, very good at what they do.

My advice for you would be to really go into the negative aspects of the whole thing, there is a lot online about the surgeries, side effects etc. I would also clamp down on the research your ds does himself a lot, it sounds like he is looking at the positive side of it all.

I still hope (in my head) that it's a phase, just because my dcs life will be so much easier, but whatever the future holds I will be there.

PM me if I can be any help to you.

Oh behave you have misinterpreted by post.
I do have total respect for the difficult journey of a transgender.
I do believe op's child and every other child needs support.
But I fear that too many children are going down the transgender route when their issues aren't actually transgender because the Internet has led them that way.
How is that in any way disrespectful to a true transgender case?

Who suggested a lifetime of misery? Not me. I'm no bigot. I do redirect a real transgender. I was just cautious that the op's child was indeed this issue.

You are saying I've said stuff I haven't. Your comment about this is the same view that people had 30 years ago of being gay, and thus makes me a bigot is ridiculous.
I don't mind if someone is gay, trams or anything else. I was just concerned that op's child might not be.
Same as many other posters have shown concern .

No idea why you are projecting your paranoia onto me.

ok so i haven't read the full thread so i will apologise for that but i wanted to say your not being unreasonable in being unable to process "losing" your son yes you should support him yes you should be supportive but don't diminish your own feelings to yourself if he does this you will feel like grieving you gave birth to a boy! and its ok to feel like that you don't tell him because he will feel guilty and angry maybe even resentful of your feelings but you should know its ok to feel that it a "media" myth that parents all embrace their children no matter what the gender the reality is hard its confusing and angry and sad all at the same time

you're going to need counselling of your own to get through this i advise you to seek support from somewhere not an internet forum like this one but people who know what they are talking about (sounds offencive im sure but i cant think of another way to put it)

Obs2015 - it's not paranoia - it's anger at the fact that so many of the posts are basically viewing being trans as a passing phase or something that should be advised against - if a person is truly transgender then no amount of advising against it is right.

Ubik1. Of course they are the same. You don't decide you are gay and then change your mind a few years later. If you are gay you are gay. It's not a fucking choice - it's just what you are. It's the same if you are transgender. The only difference is that if you are transgender you require drugs and surgery which you don't if you are gay.

I would always advocate the correct counselling before any kind of drug therapy or gender reassignment surgery is looked it. It's not something you just rush into. But for people to encourage advising people that they should not encourage it shows a real understanding of the issue.

Since you expressly mentioned issues around feminism and the feminist conception of gender as a set of oppressive roles about behaviour foisted on women, OP (and it doesn't help with communication round trans issues that "gender" now has two distinct meanings - as "set of socially and culturally sanctioned roles applied to each sex", and as "internal feeling of what sex you ought to have been"), I can recommend reading some of Miranda Yardley's blog posts. She's a gender critical (in the sense of cultural roles) transwoman, who hhas interesting things to say about expected performance of femininity in the context of being a transwoman.

I'm sure I've seen other transwomen discuss the issue of HCPs during their transition expecting a sort of ultrs feminine version of womanhood to "prove" the person is serious about their transition, then being able to relax into a less stereotyped version later.

Totally agree with posters saying 70% is not much. I remember a lot of lengthy conversations about this with a very good friend when she was in her early twenties. She had always been a tomboy, and also had quite considerable body dysphoria, including wanting a mastectomy. We also had long conversations about how difficult lesbianism could be because some of the very physical features which her girlfriends were attracted to were the very things she felt most alienated by. I would say she was way past the 70% mark, but did not transition and is now comfortable with her female body and in a very happy marriage to another woman. (I am sure there are transmen out there whose story starts the same way and ends with them comfortable with transitioning - just making the point that it can go either way, it's not as simple as "your child says they are trans therefore you must accept tgem as such").

OhBehave You don't decide you are gay and then change your mind a few years later.

Of the top of my head I can think of four of DD's friends who had relationships with the opposite sex as teenagers and are now, at 20 either straight or bisexual. My DD went to a school and moved in social circles where being gay was totally acceptable and quite cool. Young people felt free to experiment, which is as I think it should be.

Hormones and surgery are irreversible changes. You shouldn't go down that path in the spirit of teenage experimentation.

Actually I know a few people who said they were lesbian or gay when young, but later fell in love with someone of the opposite sex.

Being gay is absolutely a choice for some people.
I've friends who have had long term relationships with both sexes.

I've a another friend who was horribly physically abused by her husband and has in a joyful lesbian relationship for the last 15 years.

Life is complicated, so are people, which is why as parents we are very cautious about supporting such drastic intervention into someone's physical health - hormones and cosmetic surgery are drastic.

'Ubik1. Of course they are the same. You don't decide you are gay and then change your mind a few years later. If you are gay you are gay. It's not a fucking choice - it's just what you are'

Many people really do.
My best friend from postgrad was a lesbian at the time and has been happily married to a man for the last 12 years.
I don't think there was anything inauthentic about her very passionate and sincere lesbian relationships then, or about her marriage now. One could go 'oh, she's been bisexual all along', but that's not how she identified back then.