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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think people in decent jobs don't realise how hard it is to get a second crappy job..

264 replies

ssd · 28/10/2015 08:13

I keep seeing comments on the tax credits threads about tc claimants needing to work more, like its that easy.

I can imagine if you have kept up your job since having kids due to either being able to afford childcare or having that and a mix of free family help, then you will be earning a decent enough wage and there might be overtime at your organisation, or at the very least you will be on set hours/days...so if you wanted overtime you'd know when you were available to work.

I can imagine thousands on tax credits arent in this position. I work part time and have been trying to get a full time job, or at least another part time job that would fit in with the job I have.

Its bloody impossible and trust me, I'm trying!!

Full time jobs are very rare, round here its all part time job requiring full time flexibility...so they offer you 20 hours a week and expect you to be free all week to fit around them, this makes it impossible to have 2 part time jobs

So for every poster saying "work more", please consider this isnt as easy as you'd imagine.

OP posts:
Atenco · 29/10/2015 13:43

dodobookends
I so agree. The idea that any child whose parent doesn't have a degree deserves to live in poverty is vile.

I also am a bit concerned about doctors without empathy and I've met a few in my time. I'm not just referring to bed-side manner which is essential, but how do you properly diagnose without empathy?

expatinscotland · 29/10/2015 13:48

'I independently do my own phaco list and I work in the BIrmingham Miland Eye hospital... If you want my full credentials pm me I would be much obliged!'

You just gave them to us. Not very quick on the uptake, are we?

DeoGratias · 29/10/2015 13:56

It is a regional problem though. I mentioned local job ads in shop windows here within the M25. I bet you don't get that in Nothern cities or in the country side. Second jobs are easier to get in some areas than others which may be why some people find others don't appreciate how hard it is to find second jobs.

expatinscotland · 29/10/2015 15:10

'Second jobs are easier to get in some areas than others which may be why some people find others don't appreciate how hard it is to find second jobs.'

The perfect segue for someone to come along and say, 'Just move then. On yer bike. When I were a lass my da slept at the foot of master's bed by the chamber pot whilst pimping me for 2 bob an hour and we were all grateful. People just want flat screen tellies these days.'

Silvertap · 29/10/2015 15:14

There are jobs out there in the countryside. We're farmers and always looking for local labour willing to do the odd but but no one wants to work with muck in the cold. Heck, we've created jobs in the past for the right people. There's an awful lot of farms out there employing a lot of European labour because we don't want to do it.

expatinscotland · 29/10/2015 15:18

'There's an awful lot of farms out there employing a lot of European labour because we don't want to do it.'

'We' cannot do it a lot of times because it is a seasonal and unreliable source of income and if 'we' have a family to support in the UK, we cannot very well live 25 to 1 rotten caravan.

Silvertap · 29/10/2015 15:20

Great as a second job when you already live locally though

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 29/10/2015 15:27

Yes, if the work is still available. The farms where I picked apples and my friends sorted potatoes when we were at school don't hire local teenagers and mums any more, they are more highly organised and bring in gangs of Eastern European workers (who are probably faster and more efficient than I was as a 17 year old, not to mention that you're less reliant on who turns up on the day if you already have your labour staying on site).

Silvertap · 29/10/2015 15:31

I just put it out there as it might genuinely help someone. I know 2 local farms that have help in that someone has a full time job and then helps out on the farm on their days off and evenings/holidays to give the farmers/full timers their days off/holidays. Both situations arose by knocking on the farmers door and asking. Just thought it might help someone as it's something lots of people might not think of.

barefootzenhippy · 29/10/2015 15:48

Yanbu. I count myself so lucky that I was able to find a job that fits around dh's hours so that we only need very minimal childcare and that we both earn enough (just) to scrape by. We both have skills and qualifications that we gained through our own hard work but there is so much more to it than that - we live in an area where there is work that pays enough available in the areas that we trained in, none of us have disabilities or illnesses, we are together and supportive of each other and probably loads more that I haven't mentioned. If any one of those things were to change life would be very difficult indeed. I cannot fathom how a single parent would be able to just take on overtime or find a second job just like that - childcare costs a fortune and you would have to pay upfront and then claim it back later if you qualify for wtc. Most childcare providers are only open weekdays until about 6 anyway so evenings and weekends would not be an option. It is never so simple as just work harder and I'm really shocked at the complete lack of empathy of people who think it is!

DeoGratias · 29/10/2015 15:52

Raduio 4 today interviewed a company which had 300 workers outside, 200 inside packing and 150 on another site - it was tomatoes. It was about how the higher minimum wage would affect them. It was particularly the workers outside who would be affected (and benefit). The company is going to bear half the cost £250,000 extra cost itself and try to pass the other half on to the supermarkets who themselves will have a higher wage bill. It will be interesting to see what impact the higher minimum wage will have.

Atenco · 29/10/2015 16:00

It is a regional problem though. I mentioned local job ads in shop windows here within the M25

The problem there that, if I remember rightly a couple of years ago the government brought in rules making it a lot harder for poor people to live in London with less housing benefit in a place where the rents are already so high.

I speak as someone who watches from afar, so correct me if I wrong.

But if that is the case, where on earth are Londoners going to get their cleaners, etc. I can imagine London full of ads for these types of jobs, giving a false impression that nobody wants to work, when in fact that category of employee is just not able to live within a decent distance.

BreakingDad77 · 29/10/2015 16:15

But if that is the case, where on earth are Londoners going to get their cleaners, etc.

The ones that have entered the uk but are working off grid maybe? The invisible workforce, those living several to one room sleeping in shifts in a scummy bedsit.

StrawberryTeaLeaf · 29/10/2015 16:17

But if that is the case, where on earth are Londoners going to get their cleaners, etc.

Either people sleeping 6 to a bunk in shifts in overcrowded HMOs, or bussed in from the "poorer" (ha!) suburbs.

It's started.

StrawberryTeaLeaf · 29/10/2015 16:19

X post. Grim but true Sad

StrawberryTeaLeaf · 29/10/2015 16:41

Sorry, second link should be;

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17185294

BrieAndChilli · 29/10/2015 16:48

The problem with casual work (such as farm work) is that by working for a couple of days you have to stop your claim and then it takes weeks to get it back again, people need to pay rent/bills and can't take the chance they may go a couple of weeks with no money. Eastern Europeans for get the same benefits /aren't registered so will take what ever work they can.

DeoGratias · 29/10/2015 17:37

London is a bit different as it is very full of young people willing to work. Also where I live many people live in 3 generational homes as it is the culture to care for your own and live at home so there is not the same need to form lots of separate households all paying separate rents as with different cultures where it is more the norm to leave your parents.

I certainly agree that the benefits system is shot to pieces for people who want to come on and off benefits so you either make benefits so slow and awful and small amounts that people take what work they can and forget about claiming because it's so difficult and slow to get back on benefits or else you try to form a system where if you have a week where you earn £100 that is easily and seamlessly deducted from your benefits as you gradually build up more and more work and come off benefits.

AllThePrettySeahorses · 29/10/2015 18:03

Excellent post, dodobookends.

There's been a bit of discussion on here about tax credits allowing employers to get away with paying low wages. If I'm honest, when TCs go, I can't see many employers making up the money. They didn't pre-minimum wage when people could be paid £1.50 an hour for full time work. Employees will just be far poorer than they already are.

dodobookends · 29/10/2015 18:16

The government hopes that reducing benefits will somehow magically force employers to pay higher wages to take up the slack. They won't. Why would they, when there is currently a never-ending supply of eager young new arrivals who will work for a pittance because no matter how bad the pay and conditions, they aren't quite as appalling as where they have come from.

SolidGoldBrass · 29/10/2015 18:45

A fair few casual agricultural labours are actually trafficked, as well, so they are much cheaper.

PausingFlatly · 29/10/2015 18:49

The government hopes that reducing benefits will somehow magically force employers to pay higher wages

I don't think the govt really thinks that (they'd have to have no grasp of commerce or history whatsoever).

I think they just say something vaguely sounding like that, because they have to fill the silence somehow.

And "we actually quite liked Victorian times" doesn't come across too well.

JeepersMcoy · 29/10/2015 19:39

This is possbly a slight tangent but it amazes me how many people in high paid jobs are completely deluded about how hard they work compared to those on low pay. I say this as someone who is exceptionally lucky to have a pretty well paid job.

I earn more then a social worker, nurse, or junior doctor. I earn over double what a care support worker earns, yet there is no way on earth I worker harder then them. Compared to all those jobs what I do is of shockingly low social value and to be blunt about it there is not even a tiny weeny chance that anyone would die if I had a bad day and made a mistake.

I simply can't get my head around what sort of screwed up system pays me more then someone who saves lives all day!

In fact I'm so appalled by it I'm planning on retraining as a nurse even though it will cut my earning dramatically.

I think anyone who sits in there nice cosy office telling people on low wages they 'just need to work harder' needs to take a good long look at themselves and ask who exactly is going to die if they fucked right off up their smug self satisfied arses.

And breath...

dodobookends · 29/10/2015 20:19

Well said Jeepers, you're right, they do tend to confuse working long hours while sitting at a desk with long hours of actual back-breaking physical hard work.