To think people in decent jobs don't realise how hard it is to get a second crappy job..

[ssd]

I keep seeing comments on the tax credits threads about tc claimants needing to work more, like its that easy.

I can imagine if you have kept up your job since having kids due to either being able to afford childcare or having that and a mix of free family help, then you will be earning a decent enough wage and there might be overtime at your organisation, or at the very least you will be on set hours/days...so if you wanted overtime you'd know when you were available to work.

I can imagine thousands on tax credits arent in this position. I work part time and have been trying to get a full time job, or at least another part time job that would fit in with the job I have.

Its bloody impossible and trust me, I'm trying!!

Full time jobs are very rare, round here its all part time job requiring full time flexibility...so they offer you 20 hours a week and expect you to be free all week to fit around them, this makes it impossible to have 2 part time jobs

So for every poster saying "work more", please consider this isnt as easy as you'd imagine.

YANBU, and this is something I've tried to become more conscious of.

I don't think the fact that it's hard to get another job is an excuse for not trying very very hard to get one if you need to though, and is don't think it only applies to low paid work. It can be just as difficult for people who have been made redundant from good jobs to find another at the same level, especially in certain industries and at certain times of the year.

YANBU. Looking on a job website for my area and saw 2500(ish) jobs available. Refined the search by clicking fulltime only. Came back with just over 50. Too many fucking temp agencies and zero hour bollocks

Yanbu.

Definitely NBU (but some people are completely clueless - don't let them
upset you).

Having in the past always just seen a job I wanted, applied and gotten it, job hunting this year has been a bit of an eye opener,
i have 3 kids so childcare is expensive and wanted a part time job (I currently work evenings in a restaurant) but all the part time jobs want full time availability for which I would have to pay for full time after school club as nowhere will let you change days each week.
I had applied for loads of jobs and barely gotten any response. One interview and one interview I had to cancel when my son was rushed into hospital.
But there is hope, I've just got a new job working part time from home flexible hours around the kids etc.
My friend is a manager and also works from home as well as in the local office in a nearby city so recommended me for the job.

I think if you haven't job hunted for a few years it is hard to understand how much more difficult it is, I hadn't and assumed I would be able to get a new job as easily as I had in the past.

Yanbu I work in retail although for one of the decent paying ones and the rota changes week on week. Getting a second job would be impossible. At this time of year overtime is in abundance but come 7th January there is nothing until at least April.

The most judgemental of people are those that have no idea what it is like in X circumstance which renders their opinion low in ones to be paying attention to.

Completely agree.

I absolutely hate it when some smart ass on the tax credit threads says someone should just work more (conservatives Facebook page is the worst for this). Yes it's that easy apparently .....!

then you will be earning a decent enough wage and there might be overtime at your organisation, or at the very least you will be on set hours/days...so if you wanted overtime you'd know when you were available to work.

You have no idea about jobs with decent enough wage.

Overtime is expected and you don't get paid extra. It's part of the job.

I was accused of something at work two years ago now, that I certainly was not guilty of but the situation had spiralled beyond my control and I was forced to resign. I was earning just under £50,000 a year at that point.

I got a job for forty pence above the minimum wage initially.

Then, I got a job in my old field but at a less senior level so kept the minimum wage job at weekends.

Finally, I managed to get my "old" job back - not the same one but at the same level.

I don't think for a moment that 'work more' is the automatic solution: just the same, I do think many people assume they can't.

On these threads I hear two arguments - one that people have tried to look for work and can't find it, which I'm sympathetic to, and one that there is work but why should they take it because it would be detrimental to their family setup, which I am les sympathetic to.

YANBU.

Overtime? What's that?!?

YANBU. Similarly, if you're salaried but not very well paid, and overtime isn't paid in your company, it's pretty impossible to just "increase your hours". It doesn't matter how many extra hours I do at work, I won't get paid more.

Yanbu, also another is that childcare is freely available to everyone. It bloody isn't. There is very little where I live. We have a Morning club at school which we can drop off at 8 but nothing after. There are no childminders in our village. Its really difficult.

Tbh if the DfE insists on a part-time school schedule then it should expect people who cannot afford childcare or who live where childcare is unavailable (lets not assume there is a handy CM round the corner for everyone) to only be able to work part-time.

If this Govt wants people to work and not rely on the state then it has a part to play in enabling that. It's what other governments in some other countries have chosen to do.

Make quality wrap around and holiday care available to all, means test it if need be and people will actually be able to commit to full time work. Cause, you know, lots of people do actually want to be financially independent.

YANBU

I get my rota on Wednesdays at 5pm for the week starting on Sunday -so essentially 3 days notice

My rota also gets changed by mister nobody and I am expected to check it online

I can't plan anything

Fortunately my children are now teenagers so i dont have to worry about childcare, but its still not fair on them never knowing if i'm going to be in at the weekends and evenings

Sometimes salaried jobs say in the contract that you're not allowed to take any other paid work, in any case.

Dp works full time. He'd love overtime but there is a freeze on it in the company he works for because of the state of the economy.

I work 2 part time jobs. I am very lucky that both of my jobs are at the same place. But only one of them is permanent and the other is just for a year. So next year I'll be back to 16 hours a week. Unless I can find a full time job, I'm not giving up those 16 hours because they are permanent and regular. As a pp has said though, finding something part time to fit with those hours is next to impossible.

My DD is about to be made redundant for the third time, by the "same" company. She will still have a job, but her T&C/Wage will drop.

This is a common experience with lots of Private Care providers. They "reshuffle" and name change.

These aren't MW jobs, either, but across Merseyside, were we are, there is a genuine shortage of jobs and regular redundancy announcements.

I know the odd teacher who Is guaranteed five years work, but very other people, in all job types.

The people who have long standing unbroken work records, work in the likes of Branded Bargains, Asda/Tesco and now Aldi (but they have to switch locations, daily).

I work part time in a job that fits as well as can be expected around school but I never know what I'm working- I got my shifts for today at 7pm last night and I'll get tomorrow's today! No chance of getting another job around this one as I can start anytime after 7am and sometimes finish around 9pm. Oh yes and its minimum wage with no paid sickness or holiday!

and people expect you to take on a zero hours contract. Never any mention of those!

What's the point in taking on a second job with zero hours with no guarantee of having work that week? also, many employers who use the zero hours contract get shitty with you if you can't do a shift because of childcare and punish you with reduced hours the following week.

Its OK-ish if you have a car, can drive, have all the family support in the world and can take any job but the reality is most of us can't do that and so we are penalised for doing so.

Also, preference to take on students here too because the wages are lower with under 21s. They usually are able to work more unsociable shift patterns and many parents can't start work at 6am :(

Mostly YANBU. But YABU to think that people in the sort of job you describe would actually get paid for overtime, rather than being expected to do it unpaid. That's an increasingly rare privilege in professional jobs, I'm afraid.

There is a definite misunderstanding/disbelief in people of my age and older.

I did not have access to all the tax credits and other family/child based benefits. Businesses did not have their wages bills so well subsidised by the government.

When Mr Brown re-worked Mr Lawson's 1986 Family Credit in 1999 they were supposed to be part of an economic recovery, to boost employment by supporting payrolls. All well and good but...

... they are now firmly embedded and expected. Businesses know they don't have to pay living wages, workers know they are entitled to a wage top up. That zero hour contracts suddenly arrived, especially in low paid work - great idea that. Wonder who came up with it and why it is allowed? Oh yes, flexible work force, only really meant for students and retired people wanting to earn a little extra! Anyone know when the March 2015 Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Act will be fully enacted?

Sorry, mini rant. Anyway. Some of us slightly older bods who are not reliant on the credits believe that if they are stopped then businesses will have to pick up the slack again. That is obvious, isn't it? No... wait. That's not us... that's The Government! I know that businesses have had the benefit for long enough, they know, we all know, but how do you put the genie back in the bottle?

If you need the credits then you want the genie to stay out, you can't afford not to have the cash and immediate personal needs of necessity outweigh long term societal needs.

If you don't need them then, well, the DM must be right! The lazy feckers who get them simply need to get off their fat arses and do some bloody work!

Or maybe consecutive governments of all parties need to work sensibly and slowly to unravel what their predecessors did and put in something more feasible.

Meantime we, the people, all of us, need to stop our lemming like, meeja led bleating about every 'other' sector of society - teens, single parents, unemployed, credit collecting, boomer or older. We all have to live with what we have. Fuck blaming each other, blame the politicians, get active and demand change!

YANBU (with the small caveat that pretty much nobody on a salary gets paid overtime any more).

That "full flexibility" thing is the worst problem I think - the fact a job can be 20 (for example) hours a week but the hours are not set, so that the employer can tell you you are working a few hours every day, or different hours each week - that not only means you can't get a second job, but that you will usually have to pay full time childcare on part time wages. To be fair jobs at all levels try pulling that in some cases - years ago I was a secondary school teacher and my headmaster was very anti part time workers - he made it very clear I should come back full time after maternity leave if I valued my career, and would only offer a "part time time table" spread over all 5 week days. Not quite the same problem as wanting more hours7 a second job I know...

The "living wage" concept will only work if regulation is brought in to address the "on call" aspect of 0 hours contracts and part time contracts requiring full time availability.

YANBU

So many employers only want part timers as they have to pay less tax. But the hours aren't compressed they're spread out across the week making it impossible for a second job.