To teach my children that sometimes you give up

[Shazziedazzie]

Why are some people so keen on "never giving up" and its so important to teach your children to never give up?

Sometimes giving up is the best thing to do and its wasting time and preventing progression by continuing. I've given up on jobs and relationships many times, was totally the right idea. If anything I should of given up on them sooner!

Excellent example! Some people should have definitely been taught that it's okay to give up correcting spelling & grammar on a chat forum.

As to the point in question, I absolutely agree. I remember being told I should stay living in a foreign country I hated living in because I would be a quitter otherwise! Learning to know your real limits, using logic and evaluating pros and cons are better skills than the rather simplistic never give up.

Give up isn't really the right way to put it. I left a very respected career after a lot of training and a lot of money (bloody student loans) because I hated it. Deciding something isn't right for you, or no matter how hard you work you won't achieve you goal (x factor hopefuls I'm thinking of you) and walking away with your head held high is a great skill to have.

There is a bit of danger in the "try and try and you'll succeed" mantra in that some people genuinely can't get there. I have some really lovely pupils who won't get a c on GCSE maths if they work on it forever. Accepting that and making a different plan is sensible. If I could convince the parents not to force their kid to keep sitting it and failing it (three times now) I'd be very happy.

Is it though? What about when her kids start writing essays using it? I don't understand why it's apparently okay to use it on a chat forum.

Grammar is important. It's the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit. ;)

Knowing when to give up, when you've done the best you can without pushing yourself over the edge is a good skill to have.

I really hate the "never give up, believe in yourself and if you try and try you'll reach the top" bullshit that's too often pushed onto children.

I agree OP. It's the sunk cost fallacy.

Knowing something doesn't give you the right to be a twat about it. You wouldn't say it to someone's face, because you'd get punched. And you would get punched because your behaviour, in a conversational setting, is inappropriate.

I took Disappointed's comment as a light hearted and entertaining way of making a point that does, actually, matter. And s/he did also respond to the OP's question.

Where is it written that Thou May Only Comment on OPs' Questions And On Nothing Else? Most of the threads in Classics should be deleted if that were the case. And whence the vitriol? If the OP were writing about something utterly tragic that has just happened and s/he were in shock then yes, nitpicking about spelling and grammar would be cuntish. That is not the case here.

I think it's fair enough, OP. I guess it depends what it means. I think it's really good to understand your limitations and sadly that penny only dropped for me when I was in my 20s.

however, I did see a really stupid thread here about someone who wanted her 4 year to ditch ballet because she wasn't very good. No way would I advocate giving up in that situation IYSWIM. So it depends - sensible application of "it's time to give up" - yes, absolutely.

OP
I have been in a situation in recent years where I felt that, to walk away now, would be to 'give up'. Taught to me as a child.
Actually, if I had walked away 3 years ago, it would have been much better, as well as a huge relief.

So, yes, I do think teaching your children that walking away from negative towards positive can be the correct choice, and to trust their instincts on that too.

The grammar police thing is so sad. Really.

The sunk cost thing was an absolute revelation to me. I have a lot of very unhappy friends who keep considering leaving like I did but they say they've already invested too much time, money and hardship in training. We will be working for at least thirty five more years. Writing off eight (and it isn't really writing off them because there are loads of transferable skills and alternative paths open to us because of the work done) seems eminently sensible.

I once went on an assertiveness course and was taught that one of the secrets is 'as the facts change, I change my mind.' Was a revelation to me - I thought changing/backing down/giving up was weak. But actually it's persevering at all costs which is weak. Far better to pick your battles, prioritise your time, check in that you are still working towards the right goals.

But I do make sure DS completes things - for eg, if he books a term of a particular club he has to finish that term. If it isn't right for him, then he doesn't have to go back.

I'm with disappointed

Has anyone actually ever changed their grammar based on a comment on an internet forum?

I mean, studies have shown that people don't learn how to spell words based on spell checks pointing out the error, even if the spell check makes the person go back and correct it rather than just flagging it up (automatic changes do nothing and are rarely noticed, so they are excluded). I would imagine this would be the same.

The OP's children are likely to have an English teacher that will correct them if they use "should of" in essays, which is pretty unlikely anyway. I bet half the people who use it online don't use it in work emails, for example.

It was unnecessary and impolite to point it out.

You know that really. It's like curtly correcting someone's pronunciation in conversations, or reordering their sentence and repeating it to them. Not socially acceptable.

I think it's important to learn not to give up at the first hurdle. To know when to ask for help. And equally when to stop pushing at a locked door.

I suppose it's all a question of degree. Yes it's ok to give up, but sometimes you may want to give up but with support you push on through and you get all the rewards.

For example, my 4 year old has just started judo. He's very shy and the first 20 minutes of the class he refused to join in. Every week he started crying and saying he didn't want to go. But in less than 20 minutes he was joining in and loved it. It took 5 sessions before he stopped saying he didn't wanted to go and started joining in from the beginning. Now he asks to go!

Oh Lord, why does everyone have to haul on their judgy pants and derail threads just because someone makes a lighthearted (and justifiable) reference to a grammatical solecism? It's so boringly predictable. As Peregrane says, it's not like Disappointed is attacking someone who is in crisis. It's far ruder to derail OP's thread so that you can repeat what several other commenters have already said and have a lovely time being self-righteous.

Lonny that's a neat way of putting it.

I caused myself a lot of problems with "not giving up" in young adulthood. Actually I should have "given up" more to give myself more opportunities to try different things.

I also stick with the finish the block approach to children's activities.

I don't see it as giving up - say for example you hate your job, you have fallen out of love with a partner or you're trying to do upa money pit of a house which will swallow more mmoney than you could ever hope to recoup why wouldn't you take stock of the situation and decide the best course of action is to change tack (am now scared this should be tact/track/taque ). If you can't do something and will never be able to do it unless you spend an unfeasible amout of time or money on it then yes: give up!

The OP's children are likely to have an English teacher that will correct them if they use "should of" in essays, which is pretty unlikely anyway.

Sadly not, based on formal university work I've seen from others.

All those typos are because my phone is old and knackered and frequently stops putting spaces in automatically and adds random letters if it stops keeping up with what I'm typing.... honest....

Totally agree OP. there is trying and persevering because it's worth it, and there's knowing when it is time to give up – which could be for many reasons - you're not getting anywhere, you have too much on, you want to try something else instead, you're not really enjoying it.

There is a weird cultural meme which you get on X factor etc. and also school assemblies seem to promote this idea - that "Never, ever give up!" is some kind of moral duty and makes you a good person. The trouble with that is if you want to or have to give something up, you could end up feeling like a total failure or a "quitter". No - it's about prioritising.

I've given up various courses I've started because I wasn't enjoying them or they weren't right for me, I've given up trying to get better at knitting because I just can't do it, etc. That's not because I'm weak-minded, I just knew my limits and my strengths and decided to focus my energy elsewhere. I thank that's a much better lesson for kids.

At the risk of a slap in the teeth, can I just be pedantic about the pedantry and say that when people say "should of" they're searching for "should've", not "should have" - which is clear when you think about how you say it, because "should've" and "should of" sound really similar. I don't care what people write, should of/should've/should have, but it does drive me nuts when someone goes to the bother of supplying a correction and it's not even the right one.

And FWIW OP, yes, I agree that giving up is a skill that kids should have, otherwise they either will spend lots of time doing things they hate, or else never try anything new! It's crap, I did that loads when I was younger, I have a PhD in a subject I hate to prove it .