To be annoyed with all the people on FB thanking God for 'miracle' recoveries

[bumbleymummy]

Another one tonight where a boy's church are thanking God for him being found cancer free and thanking everyone for their prayers to make this possible. Lots of comments thanking God and Jesus and praise for how wonderful and gracious He is. Not a single mention of the doctors, surgeons, nurses etc who played a much more obvious role in his recovery!

Bumbled how do you know they haven't done both. As I said before they have probably thanked the medical staff in person. You don't get to dictate who they can and can't thank.Same point goes to thats post. If you don't like it hide the post or even better do the poster a favour and unfriendly them as you clearly don't give much of a shit about them to pick over their posts after what has been a traumatic time. Mermaid you have my deepest sympathies for your loss and I agree with every word you have said.

OfaFrenchMind

Explain to me why you are so important that I should give a flying fuck what you think?!

MermaidHair

What I just said there ^^^ is what you should have said to me. Instead of which you've attempted to invalidate me and my own point of view with, yes, emotional blackmail and attempts at demonisation.

God said I tried, I sent a boat and then a helicopter and you refused. So this is how I see it.

That is a load of bollocks though isn't it?

In your story a rescue attempt was undertaken by skilled people who trained hard, used technologies put in place by other hard working, highly skilled professionals, using procedures and reporting mechanisms developed over time to attempt a rescue.

You can see that, you can observe that, you can understand how those systems work and it isn't at the hand of an unseen god.

It's a story! I give up.

Buffy, I've already explained that this is a post from a church that a few of my friends 'liked' so it comes up on my feed. I'm not directly friends with them. Also, I wouldn't use their post as an opportunity to start 'challenging them' as a PP suggested!

You're right, they may have thanked the doctors in private (I sincerely hope they did!). I'm also fairly sure they would have thanked God privately for what they saw as his intervention. However, they decided that publicly they were only going to thank God again - no mention of the doctors, which is what bothers me and what motivated me to start the thread.

Why publicly thank God and not the people? Yes, the people directly involved may not ever see that post but I'm sure other medical workers would and,given what a crap time they've been having lately, it might be nice for them, as people, to see some appreciation for what they do. Wouldn't God have known how thankful these people all were before they posted it on FB anyway?

Mermaid

"Rude and cruel"?

You hand people (in this case me) far too much power when you choose to take such personal offence. Because your feelings, let's be clear, are your business.

Think about that for a second. All I have actually done here is assert, with the same vehmence as you, a POV that is the opposite of yours.

You: God exists.
Me: No, he doesn't.

One of us is right. Based on evidence, it's almost certainly me.

But - for the first time ever, I might add - I have just made a cup of tea feeling deeply uncomfortable with myself. I don't care at all if I offend anyone ever...but I don't want to hurt anyone. Certainly not at such a raw moment in their life.

I can't (won't) take anything back - it is what I think - but I sincerely regret hurting you and I'm sorry.

Thing is...I used to be polite and respectful about God claims on this site and still managed to be called a rude, ignorant racist (depending on the particular religion) bigot. People here DO use emotional manipulation to shut down debate and it should not be tolerated - not here or anywhere.

But there's a time and place. This wasn't it.

But I wish you peace of mind, Mermaid. And excuse me, but even without a God or Heaven, your husband was monumentally important .... a gift of animated stardust from the universe.

Anyway...I have to go to work now. Just saying that so no one thinks I've run off....which I've also been accused of when I leave threads having lobbed in a grenade.

Thank you Apricot. It is nearly midnight in Aus and I am still awake thinking about this thread. I know this isn't the love in Christian section or bereavement. I have had discussions before about God but for some reason yours really got to me because I felt like it was a very personal attack on my beliefs. I definitely wasn't trying to manipulate the thread, my response took me by surprise. I guess I have more spiritual study and counselling to do. My husband was an amazing man and I can't imagine for a second that he doesn't exist somewhere. I don't normally give so much power to a stranger on the Internet, it was a first for me, but is something for me to think about.

then who are we to knock it

I'm not addressing any one person or situation. I'm posting my thoughts. In RL I do and have liked such FB posts from friends because in that scenario it's not appropriate to do anything else. But on a discussion forum then of course it is unless you're saying there is never a time to say that you don't think there is a God that ever heals people. I'm aware that on a discussion forum I will read things that I disagree with. If i want I can tell them the reason I disagree. I don't need to be offended because it's different to mine.

ApricotSorbet99 you are right. That is a fact. You are absolutely right that there is absolutely no reason why you should give a fuck that I think you are a tiny person that choose to attack a grieving person because you have so many chips on your shoulder it is a wonder you are still able to move.

I'm not sure the OP meant to question the faith of the people on her FB feed, but merely their response which seemed to her to be rather thoughtless and short sighted. In some senses I'd agree with this. I'm a Christian and have my own stories to tell of prayer/healing/non healing, but I think I should be careful how I word things - if a child has recovered, I'm careful to acknowledge the doctors, nurses, the sheer commitment and knowledge of those who have cared for the child. I thank God too, but am careful how I do this; I do not thank God in a smug 'you healed this child but not that one, praise you' kind of way, but more in a slightly uncomprehending 'I know you love this child; I know you love this other child who has died too, and I don't get it' kind of way. A way that is real.

I'm so sorry to each and every one on this thread who have told of the loss of their much loved ones. The pain is palpable and the anger - against Christians who use (sometimes) well intended but ill suited words, against God, against the idea that anyone would believe in a God - a God who would let such suffering happen. And I am right there with you, because I do not have a one size fits all answer to this.

I've experienced non-healing all my life; born with a degenerative disease which has robbed me of much and I've had my fair share of the 'just pray and it'll all be fine' type of rhetoric from some of my fellow believers. I sometimes find this incredibly hurtful; do you think I'm not good enough? God hasn't answered me because I don't show enough faith/say the right words? I find this hurtful from people, but all I experience from God is this all consuming love, this containing of me in my suffering which is inexplicable and profound, this waiting with me in my pain, alongside me in the darkest nights where my lungs threaten to finally give up on me and my body shudders with the most hideous of pain. I ask for healing, in those times, and it comes to me in the form of peace, of knowledge of God's loving presence.

Far from thinking God doesn't care about those who die, I think God weeps too.

I know it's not enough, I know vague feelings present no empirical evidence. I know it. I've been round this a thousand times. But all I can present is what I have found, time after time, and that is the presence and action of a God who got involved in human history through Jesus, who got down and dirty in the squalor and who suffered in the ultimate way. A God who gets it.

I can't answer the question as to why some, and not others, seem to recover/be healed/whatever. I use the description of the now and the not yet - of these 'miracles' being windows on how it should be and once will be, rather than arbitrary examples of God's favouritism. Examples of what God intends for God's creation, a place where there is no mourning or death, where all those things have gone away.

I really don't understand why people always say this. I most certainly would!

we live in a country where we have an established church, but oddly members of that church feel hard done by. I think that's why people say it.

I understand why, the established church has enjoyed a privileged position and when these privileges are questioned they start screaming about being discriminated against. A bit like when straight white middle-class men claim they are being discriminated against.

I do not feel discriminated against or hard done by. A few members of a few churches may feel this way; that doesn't mean every believer is screaming discrimination in the streets.

But do Christians (especially those who belong to the established church) realise the degree to which their views are protected by blasphemy laws, mandated by the education system in the way that other sincerely held beliefs in ways that say vegetarianism or a political philosophy are not? Do they seek to challenge their own group's special privileges?

blasphemy laws? In the UK, or even most European Countries? ...Ok...

OP, whilst I understand your point of view, I think there is a whiff of superciliousness in your posts.

You are judging this family without knowing anything about them. You don't know what kind of experience they had with doctors or why they have chosen to thank God on FB nut not the doctors, or what they have done to thank the doctors in other ways.

If they had posted to thank their friends and family for support during the child's sickness, would you be fuming that they hadn't thanked their doctor in the same post?

slaggy island .i never ment my son was saved because his life was worth more of course not .i just ment when we had nothing else left our faith let us focus on recovery trying not to think the worsed.i am sorry but i always feel someone was with us in those dark days and if folk dont get it .well i am sorry

French blasphemy is still on the statute book in Scotland and the racial and religious Hatred Act in England gives religion far more protection than other beliefs people willingly subscribe to.

Shops are closed and hours restricted on Sundays in deference to Christians, CofE bishops have power to set in the HofL and alter our laws, children are forced to listen to Christian dogma in state schools (and that's before we get onto Church schools).

Yep Christians are definitely a persecuted group.

Apricot FWIW I agree with everything you say. I don't believe in God and also wouldn't take kindly to someone i don't believe exists loved my child more than I do

I think Stephen Fry sums up my feelings perfectly...

*someone saying

If the family were previously getting FB messages from people offering prayers then I can totally understand why they would put such a post on FB.

I do not understand your reticence to question and challenge your friends Bumbley, surely you are more likely to understand the "Why" if you ask them about it. You might also find out if and how they thanked the medical staff and reduce your annoyance.

Apricot I think the term 'respect police' gives a fairly clear insight into your levels of respect for anyone who shares a different belief to you

I respect people.

I do not respect beliefs.

"I don't much like posts such as these either but I do firmly believe in respecting the beliefs of others. I suspect you wouldn't be making points like this if the God being thanked was Allah hmm."

I really don't understand why people always say this

Oh, I think we all understand why bigots say this.