To not want to send dd to nursery after this?

[Arkkorox]

2 weeks ago a local nursery nurse was arrested and it's come to light that it was because they were in possession of a large amount of child pornography and indecent pictures of children of the age group he worked with.

Dd was on the list for this nursery and I have since taken her off. It's made me not want to send her to nursery at all.

DP says I'm being silly and we should still look into sending her. I think that I might be worrying too much about it too but if that supposedly background checked nurse can slip through so can others?

Ark I can totally understand why you feel like you don't want to send dd at all. What a horrible thing to happen.

However, in a good nursery, that follows safeguarding rules properly there is no way a child could be abused. I worked in an excellent nursery years ago and we were never alone with any child and whistle blowing was encouraged.

I know someone could still have child abuse images at home, so I guess that is where you have to either find a nursery you trust or not send dd.

They won't confirm nor deny if any of the pictures were of the children he actually worked with, they've just said of the same age range ( which makes me think they are)

There's a wonderful nursery up the road from my mums that I would love dd to go to, but even with there im having a hard time trusting the staff after this. I'm being ridiculous I know!!

On the one hand background checks prove absolutely nothing unless the person involved had previous convictions, so if the person concerned had no previous record nothing would show up.

On the other hand, you are being immensely unfair to the other staff in the setting. Don't you realise that only a miniscule number of people are involved in this sort of thing and the rest of the population aren't? The other staff will be as horrified as you. OFSTED & the local authority will have been crawling all over the nursery now and it's probably far safer than it ever has been. YABU.

I can understand why you are concerned, but things like this are rare.

Talk to the nursery you like ask about their safeguarding policies and how they are monitored. Explain your concerns. I am sure all the local nurseries are hyper aware at the moment and rechecking policies.

sticker you're right im not being fair on the other staff. DP made the point about it now being the safest nursery too.

I think it's unlikely you'd find any nursery where adults are never alone with children.

Would you find it easier to trust a childminder where you have met and checked out the carer personally, rather than a nursery where you have no control over who is actually caring for your child?

Could you go and visit, and discuss your concerns with the manager? They will obviously be as distressed as you at the situation and can probably explain their safeguarding procedures in detail and reassure you. Looking around the nursery and meeting the staff might help set your mind at ease? Can totally understand why you would feel this way btw.

Oh God that is a parents nightmare. No you are not being ridiculous at all,you wa to protect dd which is quite right.

I will say though, I read a book about a nursery worker who abused children in her care and as well as being horrified by the abuse I did keep thinking 'why was she allowed to take a child away, alone, for ten minutes? Who runs a nursery like that? '.

In my previous job (i am an sn teacher now) at a nursery the routines and rules about toilet visits, ratios and safeguarding were so robust and so strictly enforced that it simply woul have been impossible for any staff to hurt/abuse any child.

You are always right to ask any questions you need to at nursery. Would you consider visiting the one by your mum's and telling them what has happened and how much it has shaken you? They could show you what they do to keep the children safe.

I was keyworker to a little boy who had been moved from another nursery, due to parents worries (issues to do with his care, no suspicion of abuse at all). They kept a very close eye on him/us. Coming to pick up at different times, asking to see policies, checking we knew ratios and followed them to the letter (we did). It was understandable. We worry about our dcs and when something like this happens it shocking.

Feel for you

I am not sure how a childminder where they are always on their own with the child is better than a nursery who should have clear policies whereby they are never alone with the parents!

(I am not saying either pose a massive risk)

This happened in my town too in the last two weeks, (we may be local). My DD doesn't go to this nursery but another in the same town. It made me question myself about about using a nursery full stop, I had a chat with my room leader and feel assured.

I would call the nursery, ask for a chat about it before making any decision so. PM me if you want

Fwiw If the images were taken in that nursery I would not consider sending a child there. The other staff may be very nice, but the management is flawed If the allowed this to happen to children in their care.

Sirzy - do you mean never alone with children? I've never come across a nursery that has that policy tbh.

I didn't say either was "better" anyway, just that it might be easier to trust a childminder as you have chosen, reference checked, seen their DBS yourself, whereas with a nursery you may never have met the person looking after your child and have to trust someone else to do all the checking out.

These stories get publicity because they are every parent's worst nightmare and because they are so rare. There is always an element of risk in whatever you do, but this one is now even remoter, because the controls will have been tightened even further.

Look around a number of nurseries and go with your gut reaction as to which one suits you & your child.

Dbs mean nothing except they have never been caught with anything.

Nurseries should be designed and operate so that staff are never alone (as in behind a door where they can't be seen) with a child. That is why most are more open plan and the toilet/nappy change areas don't have closing door and are visible from the main room.

It's a really, really scary thing to send your DC to nursery for the first time -- even without this terrible thing having happened.

Definitely talk to the nursery staff and ask them to reassure you about their child safety policies. If you still don't feel 100% happy then look into other nurseries and see if you can find one that you do feel secure about. It's worth putting in a bit of time and effort now, for peace of mind later. You'll probably find that most nursery staff will be really happy to do whatever they can to help you feel comfortable -- including dropping in unexpectedly at some point during the day if that would make you feel better (though it might be difficult for your daughter if you then leave again).

YANBU to be concerned.

But as others have said, it's very rare!

My dd goes to nursery 3 days a week. For no other reason than "she can".
She gets the 15 hours free thing.

She loves it there. She happily runs in and hangs her coat up. I am lucky if I get a kiss goodbye!

I think the nursery children are a good indicator of the nursery.

Kids will not pretend to be happy!

Kids will not gladly run to a place where they are getting hurt.

Go and visit some nurseries. Explain your concerns. You won't be the first.

Without being a creepy stalker, watch the children for a bit. Are there several interesting activities out for them to be playing with? Are the kids playing with them?

Are there enough adults with each group of kids?

It was hard for me to let dd start nursery. She has a food allergy. She has co-ordination delay. Her speech is unclear. (Sorry dd, I love you to bits!)

But she loves it there. She goes and hugs the staff.

Every nursery in the country will be concerned after seeing that news. 99.9% of them are innocent.

snoss the nursery I worked at had a policy that staff were not ever alone with a child out of the sight of others. So for example I could be working one to one with a child but others would be having a story or whatever but other staff could see us.

But for toilet visits/nappy changes we always had at least two staff.

I've been to a lot of nurseries Sirzy and the ones that don't have closing toilet doors are a minority. Actually I can't think off the top of my head. Similarly they have doors/curtains on sleep rooms, and adults might be alone with children in other situations such as waiting with a sick child. Maybe some nurseries do ensure adults are never alone, but in my experience it would certainly be a minority.

I have been in many nurseries and never one that was like that, if it was i wouldn't return and I would also be contacting ofsted to raise concerns!

How strange Sirzy, you'd contact Ofsted to say a nursery had doors Goodness knows how these places manage good and outstanding Ofsted inspections and become teaching schools then...

I would contact ofsted if I felt a nursery had lax child protection policies which is what letter a staff member be alone out of sight with a child is. Also pretty dangerous for the staff member too leaving them open to all sorts of accusations!

paulapompom - how do you manage all the other children while two staff are watching one child go to the toilet? Or do all the children have to come and watch too? In a room with 12 2 year olds and two adults changing a nappy, one adult would have to supervise the other 11 children...

Oh op I feel for you. This person has been arrested though. If there is evidence that any of the photos were of children from the nursery then the parents of those children will be informed. The nursery will be running by the book due to this. I'm sure that if you go in and speak to a senior member of staff they will help put your mind at ease.

It is OK for nurseries, preschools and schools to allow staff to work on their own with children, just like it's OK for a grandparent, aunt, uncle or parent to be alone with a child. There is no greater risk in a nursery. In fact, it could be argued that the risk in an educational setting is smaller because those adults are less likely to have previous convictions that the parents are unaware of.

Setting staff often take precautions like leaving the door of the room they are in open, etc, but they also have to consider ratios of staff left behind with the other children and children's right to privacy too. You could ask about that to help you feel reassured that they are aware of the need to protect the children in their care..

You need to remind yourself that the risk to your own child hasn't become any greater because the person who has been arrested is from a setting you know. He has been arrested and removed from the setting concerned and the procedures in that setting will be examined in great detail. That is good.

No check give a 100% guarantee. You also can't guarantee that your child won't be abused by a family friend at a party or injured in a car accident on the way to school. Parenting is a series of calculated risks. If you choose not to take any, your child doesn't get a life.

The nursery my DS is at has a stable door on the nappy changing room, so the bottom part of the door (there isn't a top part but its the easiest descriptor I could think of) is closed during the change. The changing table is at a height that children wandering passed can't see the child being changed, but any passing adults can see exactly what is going on. The wall around the toilet section has a sinialr set up, half wall so adults can see over the top. The quiet corner for naps and where sick children wait to be collected has a sheet that is pulled round it, but its a gauze so while it dulls the view for the children inside to reduce stimulation and let them settle to sleep, anyone in their is still clearly visible from the outside.

I'd never given their arrangements a second thought before this thread, but now I think about it, I am impressed at the thought and care that has gone into ensuring safeguarding is simple through manipulating the nursery environment.