To ask those who voted for the conservatives ....

[ginorwine]

Reading the threads here there is much criticism about conservative policy .
A lot of people must have voted for them .
Where are they on mums net ?
And on threads such as those re the w t c cuts are they not representing their views as it was clear this would happen ?
I can tell that they may be slated but surley differing views can be expressed so long as it doesn't get nasty - a know that feeling run high but surley ppl can do so .
So to Tory voters -is it how you anticipated .what are your views ?

It was sarcasm.. it wasn't meant to be provocative.

I just thought it was a good line TBH.. no one but me thought it was funny? Ok, (hangs head)

Wow, longtimelurker101, you are inadvertantly proving the point of the thread, and seemingly without irony.

But I will bite,

First, your presuming I'm a Tory voter

Second, your making a massive assumption that I don't understand macro/micro economics and can have a different opinion.

Third and this is the major one, is that you have presumed that if I recieved criticism I would automatically cry persecution/bullying.

Still, whilst it's contradictory of what I have just said, it's funny how you ignored the original question by op, and more importantly the political points in my previous comments and went straight to questioning my character.

Just.... when did i question your character?

Also, your understanding of economics was called into question when you discussed Corbyn printing money, ahem, just like QE has done.

I'm not presuming anything, but I'm tired of fighting a battle of misinformation and opinion on here that isn't based on fact.

"Reading the threads here there is much criticism about conservative policy .
A lot of people must have voted for them .
Where are they on mums net ?"

And as I said, there are lots, the never ending benefit bashing, the I pay in and get nothing threads, the threads where people assume about others finances and wonder about calling the DWP hotline.

I don't think MN is a haven of the left wing at all, I think it has a balance, and yes I do come across as the most vehement of left wing posters, but I'm actually middle ground, I do so because sometimes the right wing bullies need to be stood up to.

and "without irony" in what sense do you think I meant: " A lot of people were proud to invade Poland, didn't make it right.."

Oh gosh, a little grace there please, it was funny, it stands as a good puncture remark to the one above it. Not as " I'm making comparisons with Nazi's and Tory voters" that would be a stretch even for me.

and "without irony" in what sense do you think I meant: " A lot of people were proud to invade Poland, didn't make it right.."

Oh gosh, a little grace there please, it was funny, it stands as a good puncture remark to the one above it. Not as " I'm making comparisons with Nazi's and Tory voters" that would be a stretch even for me.

this is not the case, when conservative voters have a viable argument it will stand up, make your case, I will ( and have) conceed points. Until then don't say its cause of "bullying".Oh, and I've included articles from the telegraph and the mail as evidence in my arguments.

Including links doesn't make your posts any less condescending. As others have said, it's that attitude that shuts down debates. It's that attitude that turned off so many voters to labour in the first place.

And let's be honest, MPs on all sides have committed horrendous behaviour. Look how Labour trot out Tony Blair as some sort of hero, near election time. Really?

There is nothing funny about the Polish Invasion. Nothing at all. I find people who make jokes about things like that?

My posts are condescending? Gosh, I find on here people are venemous about the poor and the needy, and trot out half truths, or give anecdotes of "I know someone living on a million a week, and guess whose paying?." That needs a level of redressing the balance and some actual facts need to be put in there. When people continually talk about the desperate need for deficit reduction or debt, or try to give economic reasons for the cuts that are now being put in I'm duty bound to attempt to address that argument because the ones put forward are erronenous, and given in this pious manner.

Don't tell me I'm condecending, I simply reply to what is put on here. If the tory voters are scared off it isn't because they don't want to take part in the argument, its because they don't have a viable point. Look all over these threads and there are lots of right wingers preaching their gospel, disparaging those worse off than themselves and giving cod economic reasons for being able to lump loads of people in poverty. THAT needs redressing, I try to do that. Sorry for having the temerity to put logical and facutal arguments together to counter you and yours, but I find the fact that you then claim I'm some kind of bully or something a bit of a joke.

Can't win the argument, well maybe, just maybe its cause you are wrong? Could it be? (Now that was condecsending)

I apologised for the remark above, yes it was flippant, it was supposed to be hyperbole, supposed actually to be a bit funny, but of course people are now going to act offended ( wonder if I'll actually be able to post tomorrow). This is despite people calling each other the C word on here or making really, really nasty remarks. Ah well...

I never said politicians were Saints btw, I just countered the person above who made remarks about Corbyn by stating that the two people who are supposed to be front runners for the tory leadership sound like utter bastions of morality and common sense.

"Look how Labour trot out Tony Blair as some kind of hero" but they don't do they? In fact many in Miliband's camp didn't want his endorsement at all, many regard him as being toxic

Corbyn certainly doesn't hero worship him, I don't. The right do with Thatcher though, who is even more toxic to many.

long I will assume you want to derail this thread. You are condescending. You know you are.

And you are wrong, just because someone chooses not to engage with a conversation or debate does not mean it's because they are wrong. Especially when met with posts like your own.

For example I don't feel the need to debate with my Mil regarding medical care. She feels hospitals should be avoided and I can treat my child with alternative therapy. I don't get into it with her because I don't feel the need to justify my position.

I don't debate religion. Even though I am a theology student and know more about the history of certain religions than the followers do. Again, not because my position is wrong.

And you say the Milliband camp didn't want Tony Blairs support. They made a lot out of him finally coming out in Support of ED in weeks before the election.

Tony Blair is still part of the Labour Party isn't he? Or did they boot him out?

Not a Thatcher fan at all. I don't recall her being trotted out to throw her support behind the latest Tory leader. But I have only been able to vote in the last 2 elections so maybe they did previously to that.

Anyway, my point is....if you think people have been mislead, misinformed or don't understand.....talking down to them will not win them over. They will switch off.

And honestly I think making jokes about the Nazis is far worse than calling someone a cunt. But that's my opinion.

358 posts and no blood yet but I see a bit of frothing at the mouth appearing. This threads dong well.

I know I haven't been on MN for a while but I see plagiarising journalists and obscure bloggers whilst slightly rewording is still used to demonstrate ones understanding of economics. And conservative voters are accused of buying media BS.

With regards Jeremy, Tom and what's his name, I think most conservatives are happy with them leading their party and I certainly think they should continue to share with us their interesting economic vision for this country! Personally, I have always thought it good for any country to have a strong opposition. I guess sometimes you are dealt the hand that you are dealt.

"long I will assume you want to derail this thread. You are condescending. You know you are.

And you are wrong, just because someone chooses not to engage with a conversation or debate does not mean it's because they are wrong. Especially when met with posts like your own."

Sorry, but I see lots of posters backing the tax credit cuts, backing the policies towards housing etc etc. There are lots who will then trot out the Labour destroyed the economy myth, or the deficit reduction points when many other options are available for this, not just hitting the poor hard.

I was DELIBERATELY condecsending there, but I've been told on many occasions that my posts are welcomed by some cause they offer a logical counter.

People are keen to express their opinions to others, and to shout louder, people have even replied to posts of mine, so I doubt I'm that bad. So people do engage with me really.

I remember Thatcher wasn't wheeled out in the last election, being dead didn't help. The one prior to that I don't think she was either because she was extremely old and infirm. She was definately wheeled out in ones prior to that, and for leadership elections "Hague, Hague, Hague" springs to mind.

Blair came out in support of Milliband on his own, he came out against Corbyn.

If you ever say anything even mildly critical of the benefit system on here, you are accused of being a benefit basher and generally someone will come along, inform you of a life story that involves working hard followed by a disability and/or a multiple birth.

I believe the benefit system is bloated, unmanageable and has led to situations for those with young children where those reliant on benefits are identical in terms of income to those even in professional jobs because of childcare costs, which is wrong.

Hence the conservative policy of free childcare lured me in.

But the policy of free childcare isn't means tested, couples who pull in over £100,000 each will get it. Is that fair at the expense of those who are poor?

Its fine to say benefits need reform, I'd agree, but the other end needs reforming to. Those in work need to be paid enough first, not cut the benefits and those in work will get paid better in 4 years time, that is a route of pain and misery on the weakest in society.

Several posters have said the reason they don't engage in political debates. You can choose to not believe them and assume you know better. It's entirely up to you.

I am sure some people love to engage with you. Mn is full of all sorts of people. However I feel that the tone of your posts reflects the tone of the Labour Party over the last several years. Quite clearly not enough people felt they wanted to engage with that. Labour loved the idea of the 'Tory Toffs' when it came to voters as well as the MPs. It backfired massively. Especially since they were all 'toffs' themseleves.

How do you know the benefit bashing threads are started by the right/Tory voters? Do people disclose their vote to you? I know plenty of labour voters who feel benefits have got out of hand.

Besides which, you can't mention the word benefits without being jumped on imo. Lots of threads are clearly benefit bashing. Some are not.

In regards to thatcher... You clearly missed the bit where I said I have no clue what happen previously. Ink, No party should allow a a war criminal to be paraded around and their support celebrated.

Conservative policy have taken steps to do that by raising the minimum wage firstly in April to £7.20, which when you are earning £6.50 is a lot, and will continue going up.

Regarding childcare costs, although I would personally have favoured a lower amount, I also feel a universal childcare system that is free to all is probably the best thing a government can do. It allows everybody to continue with their career and provide for their own families. I'd personally like to see it available to all children over the age of two: perhaps that will come in, I just don't know.

And also all your posts were diliberatly condescending. Not just that one. You knew they were written with a sense of superiority and you were talking done to people witha shouts of 'drivel'.

I don't think it was the idea of tory toffs lost labour the election. Generally I think it was that people bought into the economic issues narrative and Labour failed to address the issues of deficit, and "Labour spent too much money" both of which are actually challengable. Labour chose not to challenge this early on in the parliament and it effected them.

I'd also say that the Tories had massive backing in the media, The telegraph, Sun, Mail, Express, Times and even Sky were backing them. This shapes people's conciousness no matter what you think, and for having such backing they won suprisingly few votes (27% of the turn out)

They also won because they promised to be the party for the working people, this will be their undoing probably, cause they certainly aren't looking that way right now.

"Ink, No party should allow a a war criminal to be paraded around and their support celebrated."

But many would regard Thatcher as a war criminal for ordering the sinking of the Belgrano, backing of Pinochet in Chillie and a host of other things.

You mention that you don't know what happened previously...

Well Long, I'm afraid I've had to use the "Ignore" tool for the first time in months.

If you can't act like a grown up, I'll have to put you on the naughty step...

Time to hide this thread thank you OP until last night it was interesting

Labour also have media support, yet miraculously are intelligent enough to see past the Telegraph but not the Guardian.

Well I'm sorry. But if pepole are going continuously day things like: I pay in and get nothing out. Whilst poor bashing I'm going to call them on it.

Admittedly the minimum wage is going up, but even the ifs say it's not enough and the incremental wage raise to 2020 is too slow ton stop lots being adversely affected. Heat or eat etc. I know other media outlets supported Labour, but overwhelmingly the majority supported the tories

Oh that's an excellent idea Iknow

Longtimelurker, most (young) people don't read newspapers like the older generation do. They get news via twitter etc. Olden day Newspapers' influence is waning.

And you forgot to mention the BBC which has a strong leftwing bias, despite being supposedly neutral!

The BBC tends to have both sides thinking it has a bias.. probably meaning that it is neutral. The papers still control the agenda though.. They get reported on the TV, the articles get re tweeted etc etc