To ask those who voted for the conservatives ....

[ginorwine]

Reading the threads here there is much criticism about conservative policy .
A lot of people must have voted for them .
Where are they on mums net ?
And on threads such as those re the w t c cuts are they not representing their views as it was clear this would happen ?
I can tell that they may be slated but surley differing views can be expressed so long as it doesn't get nasty - a know that feeling run high but surley ppl can do so .
So to Tory voters -is it how you anticipated .what are your views ?

but how does that work if you take away the support that helps disabled people back into work?
(sorry not up on names of these things)

They closed Remploy.

And cut DLA by 20% in order to "encourage people back to work" when it is not actually an out of work benefit. It is for the additional costs of being disabled, which many people used in order to keep them working.

That was a good start.

The criteria for PIP is very different from DLA and the lower rate has been abolished.

But what about the rest of us? The people that don't come under the Labour "umbrella of importance"?

We're the ordinary people who are getting taxed to shit and not seeing any benefits. We work, we buy food, we pay for trains/buses, we get taxed.

Doesn't matter if we're earning £20k or £200k - we're paying proportionally.

The fact that I don't want to pay any more than I already am doesn't mean I'm some sort of monster.

The fact that I happen to think the wellbeing of my family is more important to me than yours and is where I'd like to focus my earnings doesn't mean I'm a Nazi.

Jax I don't think its necessarily that people know or don't know. It's more likely they just don't want to give you their honest opinion because experience on MN threads has historically shown that people end up been labeled benefit bashing, uncaring or a number of other unpleasant names when they give an opinion that supports some of the governments policies. What starts as a civilised discussions ends up been really unpleasant.

IME over a number of years it always ends badly.

I have been watching this thread with interest and considering my response as a Conservative voter (DP and I tactically voted) but it is not something I discuss openly and certainly not on Social Media (no politics, religion or Britain first). Please don’t think that I am an uncaring benefit bashing crazy loon, but have seen right/left debates become very heated and nasty which is why IME people don't speak up, if anyone asks I always say that votes are between you and the ballot box. There are clearly a minority of extreme views from every side of the political spectrum and they tend to shout the loudest, but most people are moderate and simply want the best for their families.

Everyone is equally entitled to an informed view and we should be proud that we have can have open and free discussion and encourage healthy debate. This is not a black and white topic with no right or wrong answer.

I did think long and hard before casting my vote, desperate to not to be swayed by media, but rather look at each manifesto, track record and the senior MP’s who would potentially form the Government/Cabinet.

In the end it came down to me deciding that in order to have security for the most people we needed a strong economy, a money snowball. If we create wealth through ingenuity and entrepreneurship, then we will generate more revenue, more jobs and reduce the number of people stuck in cycles of state reliance. I felt that the Conservatives would be more able to deliver this.

Ed Miliband (unjustly ripped by the press), criticised capitalism but never gave any sort of alternative which I could believe in. Ed Balls was as an economic advisor to Gordon Brown which made me uncomfortable. However, I think party politics as a whole needs re-invigoration, less career MP’s and a more accurate representation of the voting demographic.

I run a small family business, and in the long run we will probably end up paying more Tax, but I am happy to do this as I see it me being a dutiful member of society, under the Coalition we received a grant which has allowed up to expand and take on a full time member of staff on a decent wage.

The Conservatives have introduced many apprenticeships, and they have cut income tax by raising the tax free allowance, and introduction of a decent living wage. The start-up loans for businesses has created jobs in our area, and they want to invest in city infrastructure (again a possible trickle down from employment). I do feel that the tax payers bill for Benefits is high, and that it needs to be better means tested but must make sure that there is a good safety net for the most vulnerable.

Sorry it's a bit of a wordy post but wanted to give a reasoned response and thank you OP for starting the thread.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I think the phrase 'the emptiest can rattles the most' can be used to describe the prevalence of left wing opinion on social media. Conservatives, in my experience, are less vocal than people on the left of the political spectrum. This is especially true of Mumsnet in my opinion. It is very left leaning, but this is obviously not representative of the country as a whole.

lots of quiet tories on here too

and again. the welfare system......yet no reasons why the disabled should be targeted and why tories think that is ok. or is it just that after the job is done scameron and co will just reinstate all the cuts that affect the disabled...

Thanks for a really thoughtful and detailed post squeaky. I hadn't considered the business loans, etc.

I think it is possible for Baron to say this:

To be honest, the entire welfare system needs to be taken apart and replaced with something far cheaper and easier to run, that is more effective where required.

Without it meaning that she wants to get rid of the social safety net. Big organisations and systems constantly have to update and change or they fall apart. If governments of the day don't manage welfare systems and keep them efficient, they won't exist for long.

lots of quiet tories on here too

Probably not keen on coming on here to be talked at....

Justanotherlurker. I realise there are ppl with dodgy views on different sides of the political divide.

I didnt like Rachel Reeves stance or attitude on welfare. Pre Corbyn i thought Labour were too Tory lite so this election year i voted Green.

Many years ago i met Tony Newton at a party. He seemed very nice and was very helpful and gave a lot of his time to a place where i was a care worker back in the early 90s.

Cant say more as it could out me.

IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou:

"We're the ordinary people who are getting taxed to shit and not seeing any benefits. We work, we buy food, we pay for trains/buses, we get taxed."

Drivel, utter drivel, again a right wing poster comes out with this I don't benefit... well I'll teach you some basic economics, again:

The more you earn the more you benefit from society, you benefit from the roads, rail, and infrastructure which is subsidised by taxes, you benefit from healthcare if not your own but of those who work for you or facilitate your existence (your secretaries, employees, your kids teachers, nursing staff, street cleaners, shop workers, bin men etc). You benefit from property law and the rule of law being enforced. The educations of the people who facilitate you which have been paid for by the state, blah, blah, blah this list is endless.

The more you earn, the more you rely on other people and institutions to help you earn it, yet you and your ilk continuously preach the "self reliance and personal responsibility" fine, but practice what you preach.

The idea that tax is a pay in get out system is ridiculous. I'm tired of the right wing on here preaching this "look after your own" gospel. Fine,go off grid, stay off grid, don't take advantage of anything that society offers you cause that is not "looking after your own", don't use anything that society offers or tax payers have contributed to, otherwise you are not being self reliant.

Also tax levels are at a relative historic low in terms of taxes on income, wealth etc.

J a x - you say that the Tories are targeting the disabled - and reducing benefit presumably ? The benefits as Iu derstsnd ithave not changed .
Also ther is apolicy of building g housing , help to buy etc .
That's not negative for poor people ?

I don't think that was a fair rebuttal to IknowyouarebutwhatamI, longtimelurker101.

She was not arguing that she should pay no taxes and that there should be no welfare state. She was arguing that the burden of taxation was too great on her class of people. It appears that she thinks the balance is wrong, not the basic principle.

Drivel, utter drivel, again a right wing poster comes out with this I don't benefit... well I'll teach you some basic economics, again:

And there it is. This attitude and tendency to talk down to people is why debate has all but stopped on MN. Because people are fed up of being spoken like they are stupid.

Disability has been re-classified as purely physical. I have filled out several DLA forms for my children and neurodiverse or mental health conditions do not seem to be represented under the PIP points system. I think there is just one question relating to social / communication difficulties yet my son's autism severely restricts and limits what he is able to do.

This is a good article explaining the chances in criteria for mobility alone.

falseeconomy.org.uk/blog/changes-to-mobility-allowances-under-pip-ask-your-mp-to-stop-this-injustice

Scratch that, it isn't that good and the comments are awful, but you get the gist from it.

I voted Tory, and I've not changed my mind - I still think it was the right decision.

A lot of the Tax Credits cuts bashing I've seen has been along the lines of 'I'm going to be £800 a year worse off, the bastards' etc.

IMO Tax Credits were far too high and generous for far too long and needed cutting. The Country simply couldn't maintain the high amounts it was paying out long term. I do think they could have been cut more gradually in an ideal World...but this isn't an ideal World and Tory are still very much the lesser of two evils IMO.