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AIBU?

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Original poster

To ask any black posters how they feel about Gollywogs

252 replies

Bambambini · 18/10/2015 20:42

There's a very popular FB post doing the rounds asking people to vote if they the think Gollywogs should make a come back.

I commented negatively on it as I was under the impression that black people often find them offensive and I was suspicious as to the intent of this meme doing the rounds and if it was just trying to stir up trouble. Then I looked online to back up this view and on another board black folk (or poeple who claimed to be black)seemed to be saying they couldn't care less.

So if you are black how do you feel about them, I don't want to be misrepresenting you. And to all those folk on FB voting yes and commenting how all this PC stuff is out of hand - maybe they need to see what black people actually think.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
ApricotSorbet99 · 19/10/2015 07:16

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

WorldsBiggestGrotbag · 19/10/2015 07:17

I blocked my auntie on Facebook for liking one of these posts. She undoubtedly is racist.
If you don't think they're racist, why would you want to 'bring them back' knowing that a large proportion of people are offended by them? Would your life be significantly better if you owned a golliwog toy?

Original poster
Bambambini · 19/10/2015 07:31

""OP, just out of interest why are you entertaining opinion polls by Britain first?"

As i posted earlier that there is nothing about Britain First on the post on FB. It just was shared under a man's name and his FB page looked harmless.

I think a lot of people just haven't read mumsnet or articles on Golliwogs about whether they are offensive. Propably just never given them thought.

OP posts:
merrymouse · 19/10/2015 07:34

The idea that, despite the millions of dolls and soft toys now available, children are missing out because they don't have a dated, not particularly attractive doll with cleary racist connotations is ridiculous.

merrymouse · 19/10/2015 07:38

Starting a campaign to bring gollywogs back implies an awareness that they are no longer widely available and of the reasons behind this.

Original poster
Bambambini · 19/10/2015 07:48

"Starting a campaign to bring gollywogs back implies an awareness that they are no longer widely available and of the reasons behind this."

Well yes, it does look suspect. I think the thousands and thousands of replies and likes though are just probably the way many folk feel they can't ignore these stupid things and have to respond to it. Probably just never given it any thought .

OP posts:
abbieanders · 19/10/2015 07:58

Or too much thought. Unfortunately, there are a non trivial number of people who feel victimised by the current attitude to gollywogs. This is because they'd enjoy expressing contempt for the people gollywogs are intended to represent and also it'd be one in they eye for the PC brigade who won't even let you have a doll created and intended to cause racially motivated contempt.

BertrandRussell · 19/10/2015 09:01

"BertrandRussell You are not offended, and have no business pretending that you are"

Bollocks. I chose the word with great care. I do not use it lightly. I find the fact that white people are campaigning to "bring back gollywogs" deeply offensive as a white person. I find the fact that gollywogs were even invented deeply offensive as a white person. I am not being offended on someone else's behalf. I am offended in this context by the behaviour of other white people.

Niceteeth · 19/10/2015 09:11

On the contrary, as a black person I think bertrand has every right to find something grossly offensive, offensive. And no I don't feel patronised, just pleased that there are some white people out there that actually do get it!

Niceteeth · 19/10/2015 09:14

And this thread does crop up with alarming regularity. There I am, happily believing that most people aren't racist and then a thread like this brings up the same old depressing, apologist views. It makes me view mumsnet very differently.

BarbarianMum · 19/10/2015 09:16
noeffingidea · 19/10/2015 09:27

I agree barbarian . I did grow up in an area where quite a few black people lived, so it's not like I'd never seen a black person. I just never saw any connection or resemblance to real black people. That really just demonstrates how inhumane they actually are.
It seems obvious, but I also think some young people don't understand how it was pre-internet days. It takes seconds to click on google and type in 'history of the golliwog' and educate yourself but we just didn't have access to that kind of knowledge. That's why there's no excuse for this kind of ignorance nowadays.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 19/10/2015 09:32

of for fucks sake how many fucking gollywog threads will there be on MN? and all stated by white posters

are you really not aware they are offensive OP? do you live in the outer Hebrides!?

MollyCarpenter · 19/10/2015 09:39

I'm 50 and come from a tiny rural town. In my class we had one black child and they had the misfortune to have the surname Robertson. Of course they were immediately called Golly by everyone, even the teachers. You know what made it worse? We knew it wasn't nice, that it was borderline bullying, although they were a well liked and popular child and that it was pretty damn racist.
All this fake hand wringing and claiming not to know what it represented is utterly disingenuous. It was racist back then and it's racist now.

Lurkedforever1 · 19/10/2015 09:44

I believe its similar to any other brand of racism. Eg I have a friend who calls herself half caste, that doesn't mean its ok for everyone else to decide the phrase is therefore ok for any black mixed race person.
If any black, or black mixed race person isn't bothered by gollywogs, then they have the right to that opinion. Whereas nobody else gets to decide every other black person shouldn't be offended either.

I find the idea of suggesting they are no different to any other doll ludicrous. Ethnic dolls are usually the same, but just different colours. Or with some, the same but in actual appropriate ethnic dress. A gollywog is the equivalent of having black barbie come as a plantation slave with a bag of cotton, or having asian annabelle come with a curry and making bud bud ding ding noises. Golliwogs are piss taking caricatures, not miniature humans like any other doll.

Original poster
Bambambini · 19/10/2015 09:47

I know a lot of people find them offensive and that a lot of people don't. I wanted to know what black people thought of them as really it's their opinion and feelings on it that will have more weight rather than all the white people just being dismissed at PC horn mad lefty liberal dogooders.

And as it's still an ongoing issue and popped up on my FB last night and went viral - then I'll start a thread if I want. Maybe it will make some people think or challenge their thoughts on it.

OP posts:
OllyBJolly · 19/10/2015 09:49

are you really not aware they are offensive OP? do you live in the outer Hebrides!?

Don't want to derail but I find this comment offensive! I'm from the Scottish islands and found islanders to be often more enlightened and open-minded than those in inner cities.

Back on topic, because someone is ignorant of the connotations of something, doesn't make it any less racist. In the large national company I worked for, it was usual for women to retire with a "dowry" on marriage right up until the 70s. The fact it was "accepted" doesn't mean it wasn't discriminatory. Ignorance is no excuse.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 19/10/2015 09:53

sorry Olly Blush

it was to indicate remoteness

abbieanders · 19/10/2015 09:53

Especially given the effort it would take to be that ignorant. I personally don't think there's any plausible deniability there.

Taytocrisps · 19/10/2015 10:03

I never had a golliwog myself but they would have been common enough toys when I was a child in the 70s. I never associated them with black people and wasn't aware that "wog" was a racist term.

Now that I'm older and wiser, I would never join in a campaign to bring them back and I wouldn't buy one for my DC.

0dfod · 19/10/2015 10:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

maras2 · 19/10/2015 12:40

At school in the 1950's the ignorant racists would claim that the word was not bad as it stood for Western Oriental Gentleman Angry Did it bollocks !

Katedotness1963 · 19/10/2015 13:26

How proud am I that I come from this county...

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11770320/Racist-golly-costumes-worn-in-town-parade.html

I follow a local message board and cringed at the many posts exclaiming, "we're just small town people", "we come from a small place and are not worldly", "what wrong with it, we're not racists, it's just kids having fun"

I can assure you that they do indeed have the internet, Sky TV with it's many news channels and can actually find their way out of the county to holiday abroad.

Yes, I am of an age where we had gollys as kids, yes, I did have one and no, I did not realise it was supposed to be a person. I most certainly see that they're found offensive now.

Garrick · 19/10/2015 13:40

You are not offended, and have no business pretending that you are.

I know Bertrand has responded on her own behalf but, since I also said I feel offended in my own right, I'll reply that this is an utterly bizarre statement. Who are you to tell another person how they feel? Fwiw, the dolls offend me as a reminder - indeed, a celebration - of white cruelty, and as a contemporary example of persistent white bigotry/dehumanisation against darker-skinned people.

I am offended by any fetishisation of cruelty. I'm not pretending; I think humans can be better than that.

noeffingidea · 19/10/2015 13:53

molly speak for yourself. There were no black children in our primary school at all, I can't remember ever hearing that word or being aware of any association with black people until I was older and probably saw it on TV. By which time our toy was long gone.