Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask any black posters how they feel about Gollywogs

252 replies

Bambambini · 18/10/2015 20:42

There's a very popular FB post doing the rounds asking people to vote if they the think Gollywogs should make a come back.

I commented negatively on it as I was under the impression that black people often find them offensive and I was suspicious as to the intent of this meme doing the rounds and if it was just trying to stir up trouble. Then I looked online to back up this view and on another board black folk (or poeple who claimed to be black)seemed to be saying they couldn't care less.

So if you are black how do you feel about them, I don't want to be misrepresenting you. And to all those folk on FB voting yes and commenting how all this PC stuff is out of hand - maybe they need to see what black people actually think.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
Lurkedforever1 · 21/10/2015 22:51

Never had one like I said, nor do I remember any friends doing. They existed in Enid Blyton books and older generations toy collections. Not afaik even in my families older generation, remember a neighbour with one, friends gran, some other old aunt or similar of another friend and so on. Just in response to someone saying nobody under 50 would have seen them, so pointing out despite being early 30's I very much remember them, even if the knowledge of what they were came later.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 21/10/2015 22:57

Yes, what I don't quite get it the idea they should 'make a comeback': the horrible little fuckers haven't gone away! I know exactly where I could go and buy one if I wanted. Saw one on someone's key ring at the gym the other week, too.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 22/10/2015 09:55

horrible little fuckers haven't gone away

exactly! if anyone is in doubt we had a major office issue when someone bought these black peter sweets in 2 years in a row!
Its really not even believable. Year 1 we were shocked. year 2 I was relieved they |(the black person) were not in, and I hid the sweets away. But that was not the right thing to have done, my colleague complained to HR and since then no more sweets, AND this festival has received a lot of criticism

black pete is a golly

To ask any black posters how they feel about Gollywogs
FrankSpencer · 22/10/2015 10:01

Yuck.

gotthemoononastick · 22/10/2015 12:04

Pranma describes them well. Rich brocades and embroidery. Works of art that would not be out of place in any gallery and not like a rag doll at all. Traditional , beautifully made jointed dolls.The smaller they get the more pricey .Collectors the world over of all nationalities vie for numbered pieces in a once off collection.

Further south in Africa they are more beaded and the embroidery is different. (not the ubiquitous national/ tribal ones,but velvet- jacketed minstrel types.)

They provide an undreamed of income for very talented rural needleworkers. The initial knowledge and skill came from being taught by colonial wives in exile.They are now after centuries entirely their own creations.
These people do not know the connotations of the 'dolly 'in Britain,neither would they care.

The debate in this country is now circular and a waste of time.

(caveat,I have no dog in this fight,but wanted to describe the dolls of the continent of my heart.)

Amibambini · 22/10/2015 13:47

gotthemoononastick - that's really interesting. Goes to show how cultural symbols shift and get re-appropriated over time.

hefzi · 22/10/2015 17:00

Just for interest, the "wog" part of golliwog was always used in a pejorative sense: but it stood for Wily Oriental Gentleman, and was used originally in connection with Levantine dragomen. (Doesn't mean it's a term I would use, just thought it was interesting.)

Dawndonnaagain · 23/10/2015 07:22

That is a myth, hefzi it's origin is unknown, other than the fact that it is used as a derogatory term.

TheXxed · 23/10/2015 07:32

got the moon you know everything you just said is a pile of fucking shit.

They are RACIST.

'These people do not know the connotations of this doll in England' LOL black south Africans have an excellent understanding of racism and the multiple ways in manifests itself. Also LOL at colonial wives teaching black south African women how to sew. Hahahaha hahahaha yes when white south Africans weren't busy murdering, raping and stealing land they found time to have a sewing circle and teach the natives how a new skill. HAHA

BertrandRussell · 23/10/2015 07:37

The Wily Oriental Gentleman thing is a myth- one of those disingenuous things racist people say to justify their language.(not you, obviously, Hefzi!)

You know, like when they say, all wide eyed "But what's the problem with saying Paki- it's just the an abbreviation for Pakistani- nothing wrong with that!"

Interestingly, my Australian father, who was born in 1918 , used to say "wog" to mean germ, or bug, as in "a tummy wog". He had to train himself out of it- I don't know whether that was just a family oddity, or an Australian thing.

sarahbanshee · 23/10/2015 08:19

People talking wistfully about a more innocent time when Love Thy Neighbour was on TV and no one thought it was racist - surely it wasn't so much that no one thought it was racist, as that the white majority didn't think racism was bad (and the black minority didn't get much say?) People used to have signs up in B&Bs saying No blacks, no Irish - accepted. People used to

sarahbanshee · 23/10/2015 08:21

Segregation in the U.S. Can't be brought back now because it was just innocent and we never meant it to be hurtful.

hefzi · 23/10/2015 10:21

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Frida0608 · 23/10/2015 10:51

having had years of being called a WOG i think they are horrible and make me cringe whenever I spot one.

Keletubbie · 23/10/2015 11:02

I'm black.

Well, biracial on a technicality but my skin is very brown, I have an afro, etc.

I also have lots of golliwog memorabilia. My nan used to give me the badges from the marmalade.

TheXxed · 23/10/2015 11:43

And you point is Keletubbie?

Keletubbie · 23/10/2015 11:51

No great point. I was just saying that golliwogs have a place in my home.

As a child, I was particularly fond of their hair as it was rather like mine. To be fair, growing up in a village on the edge of the Cotswolds, the only other black people I saw were my dad and Mr T.

TheXxed · 23/10/2015 11:58

That sounds tragic, now that you are a fully grown adult hopefully you can fill your home with images of black people which don't humiliate and other us.

How sad your grandma couldn't buy you books about Harriet Tubman, Mary seacole and Marcus Garvey instead.

Keletubbie · 23/10/2015 12:04

My grandma was white, and simply saw them as a nice gift for her granddaughter - I could have been green with purple spots and she wouldn't have noticed.

And my childhood was far from tragic, to me they were simply toys. My home today is mostly a shrine to my dog and daughter (but not in that order!).

gotthemoononastick · 23/10/2015 12:12

Oh dear the Xxed.You clearly have issues.You have a right to them and your opinion,though.

Unlike me,you have experience of the South.

I have tried to describe a doll and give a bit of the history as I know it,in reply to another poster who remembers a region and handwork from her years there.

Vitriolic discussions have no place in my life now,so wishing you peace. pe

TheXxed · 23/10/2015 12:24

Well as a Saffa you will know about the Rhodes must fall movement. Young people who want to decolonise their education system and society as a whole. Also as a black person I do have issues with colonialism a system which raped, tortured and exploited my people. Funny that.

Original poster
Bambambini · 23/10/2015 13:47

"People talking wistfully about a more innocent time when Love Thy Neighbour was on TV and no one thought it was racist - surely it wasn't so much that no one thought it was racist, as that the white majority didn't think racism was bad (and the black minority didn't get much say?) People used to have signs up in B&Bs saying No blacks, no Irish - accepted. "

I think many people knew racism was wrong but it was different times and was just part of journey. Actually with Love Thy Neighbour - the black charachter was shown in a much better light than the white one. The joke was on the stupid white racist guy. Similar to Rising Damp. Philip (think that was his name) out classed Rigsby in every respect - wealth, education, style, charm. The joke was on the white racist characters. And people didn't think the racism was ok - it was the opposite.

OP posts:
merrymouse · 23/10/2015 13:56

Except many people are still on that journey and are stuck in an episode of 'Mind Your Language'.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 23/10/2015 14:06

got the moon you know everything you just said is a pile of fucking shit

that made me spit my coffee out Grin

whilst I don't want to be vitriolic, this romantic eulogising of childhood gollies and dollies sticks in my craw

Senpai · 23/10/2015 19:40

'These people do not know the connotations of this doll in England' LOL black south Africans have an excellent understanding of racism and the multiple ways in manifests itself.

To add to this.. The 80's are over. HTH.

Africa is much more developed and has the same technology that any other first world country has. It's not some cut off land of poverty anymore than any other country with good and bad places is at the moment.

I've attached a city in Africa, Rwanda to be exact.

The fact that you moon think that Africa is some poor backwater "country" where them poor black peoples just don't know any better is racist in and of itself. Which also demonstrates why gollies are bad, since you clearly see black people as a caricature of poor and uneducated. You condoning gollies is a clear symptom of that.