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AIBU?

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Original poster

To ask any black posters how they feel about Gollywogs

252 replies

Bambambini · 18/10/2015 20:42

There's a very popular FB post doing the rounds asking people to vote if they the think Gollywogs should make a come back.

I commented negatively on it as I was under the impression that black people often find them offensive and I was suspicious as to the intent of this meme doing the rounds and if it was just trying to stir up trouble. Then I looked online to back up this view and on another board black folk (or poeple who claimed to be black)seemed to be saying they couldn't care less.

So if you are black how do you feel about them, I don't want to be misrepresenting you. And to all those folk on FB voting yes and commenting how all this PC stuff is out of hand - maybe they need to see what black people actually think.

OP posts:
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18
pinktransit · 18/10/2015 22:32

I have a problem with gollies. I have one.

He is a much loved toy that I've had since I was a baby - as such I love him. He is a symbol of racism that I know is offensive.

I have issues reconciling these opposing views - so he lives in the back of the airing cupboard. Warm and comfortable, but out of sight.

I have issues with throwing him away, as he's part of my childhood (I'm 46, so he was acceptable when I was 18 months old), but equal issues with keeping him.

WWYD?

grumpysquash · 18/10/2015 22:39

I am about to ask a very ignorant question...

i grew up in the 70s/80s during the whole Golliwog era, and went to a very racially mixed primary school where black girls would often refer to each other as 'wog'. I thought it was literally an abbreviation of the word 'golliwog' and didn't at that point think anything of it [far worse words were used, but that's for another thread]

But from the above posts it looks like Golliwog has become offensive.

What is the true origin of wog? Not meaning to offend anyone by asking, but really interested to know.

NeedAScarfForMyGiraffe · 18/10/2015 22:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

grumpysquash · 18/10/2015 22:44

pinktransit
I am also 46 and yes, gollies were completely ok back then.
I was given one for my 7th or 8th birthday by a black friend, so presumably she and her mum/dad didn't think it was a racist icon back in the mid-70s.
We all collected the Robinson's badges. It was like Wanted stickers or scented erasers or anything else that pre-teens like to collect.

Has it become a symbol of racism, or was it always racist? Confused

Ohwhatfuckeryisthis · 18/10/2015 22:48

About the origins of this vastly offensive thing-sorry, someone is being disingenuous there, the clothing (apart from the offensive facial characteristics) are representative of minstrels-the frock coat, the bow tie, the striped trousers. But that's an aside.
I've challenged and blocked every idiot (never knew I knew so many) that has posted on my FB tonight.

steppemum · 18/10/2015 22:49

well, I am 48, and Robinson's gollywogs etc were around when I was a kid.

BUT Lenny Henry is the same generation as me, and, as I posted up thread, when I was innocently playing with gollywogs, he was being subject to racial abuse in the playground, being called a gollywog.
So, just because they were around, doesn't mean they were acceptable or that they weren't causing offence.

I also had a beautiful baby doll who was black, with properly done black hair. She was beautiful and in such contrast to the gollywog.

BertrandRussell · 18/10/2015 22:50

Amazing how many people have black friends who love gollywogs.......Hmm. I call bullshit. I'm in my 50s and have known all my life that they were offensive. You only have to look at one, ffs!

grumpysquash · 18/10/2015 22:59

steppemum
I had one of the black baby dolls as well, properly gorgeous!

The golliwog I had honestly looked like a black version of Upsey Daisy from InTheNightGarden. In fact, the first time I saw the TV show, I thought they'd done it on purpose as a kind of modern reverse....

ToGrapefruit · 18/10/2015 23:04

Interested to see this thread!

I started a thread on AIBU some months ago (under a different name, I'll try to post a link to it if anyone's interested, but don't want to derail) about Golly's in my local-ish knitting shop.

I'm not black, though am a person of colour (I know lots of people don't like this term- I do though, it feels very appropriate- the persistant 'where are you from?' 'No, I mean where are you REALLY from?' question is particularly annoying!). I am mixed race white and Asian, so that has some bearing on the relevance (or lack of) of my answer.

FWIW though, I don't like Gollywog's/Golly's at all. To me they say racism. I did encounter them as a child, even collected some of the jam-badges, and then realised/learned that I found them unpleasant and offensive. I pretty much agree with fortune's well made points.

Anyhow. I really don't like them and what they represent. It's something we could debate and debate until the cows come home though, and there'll be some people who totally disagree with my viewpoint. I have to say, my previous thread left me rather dispirited sensitive and a bit unconfident, and I waffled, like now and yet there were some interesting points made.

MrsSchadenfreude · 18/10/2015 23:05

I have one. It's a Victorian one, black velvet, and used to belong to my grandmother. My mother renovated her, gave her new wool hair, in plaits, new eyes and mouth and made her a Victorian girl's wardrobe complete with frilly drawers. I've still got her. The drawers are long gone, but she is wearing a dress my Mum made. I keep her in a cupboard with the few remaining toys from my childhood.

peggyundercrackers · 18/10/2015 23:26

There is a shop nearby to us that sells them, they had loads when we were in, they had small, medium and large ones - they were dressed as minstrels though some were in blue clothing, some were in pink clothing. Woman said they sold quite a lot of them but they are called gollys now. Our dd wouldn't leave them alone and wanted one. I grew up with them being on jam jars and had at least one when I was little, no idea where it went though, probably t with the rest of my toys. I just think of them as black dolls in the same way as Barbie is blonde/blue eyed.

peggyundercrackers · 18/10/2015 23:27

Sorry meant to say they weren't dressed as minstrels...

peggyundercrackers · 18/10/2015 23:32

Thinking about it now - what makes a golly a golly? and what makes it offensive? The way it's dressed? It's name? Or it's colour?

BertrandRussell · 18/10/2015 23:34

"I just think of them as black dolls in the same way as Barbie is blonde/blue eyed."

Well, that's how you think of them, but it's obvious from this thread that lots of other people think differently and are upset and offended by them. So presumably you didn't buy your dd one and won't in the future? It's not as if it's the only toy left in the world, is it?

Bogeyface · 18/10/2015 23:35

H is black and couldnt care less about them, he has far worse things to think about that a doll!

But......when they are used as a weapon of propaganda by arseholes like Britain First then yes, he has a problem with that.

peggyundercrackers · 18/10/2015 23:37

Bertandrussell I won't answer that but will say what I buy my dd is fuck all to do with you or anyone else.

shadowfax07 · 18/10/2015 23:41

pink I'm a similar age to you, and have a similar dilemma. I have a golly that was knitted for me by my grandmother. It's the only thing I have left that she made for me, and I love it for that reason but hate that it causes offence to other people. It's in a box with a few of my other childhood toys at the moment.

If ever you find an answer to the dilemma, please let me know. Confused

daisychain01 · 18/10/2015 23:44

This is a first, an apparteit thread. Can't post on it unless you're black. What a load of tripe.

MsPavlichenko · 18/10/2015 23:49

I am white. I am 50. They were offensive, and racist when I was a child, and they are now. No debate necessary (regardless of what individuals think).

People holding on to childhood toys notwithstanding.

ReginaBlitz · 19/10/2015 00:08

There was a similar discussion on here a while back. I'm mixed race my dad is black. I collect gollies, the vintage type ones, it doesn't offend me in the slightest, I love them and don't find them racist, in my eyes things are only racist if you make an issue out of them! I'm more offended by someone being offended on my behalf that makes it racist and it's embarrassing. My family don't care either.

Garrick · 19/10/2015 00:11

I find golly dolls offensive. I am white and had a large collection of the damn things as a child. I don't need to feel offence on behalf of other people; I am quite aware of the dolls' history and meaning and am offended by any celebration of that.

MagickPants · 19/10/2015 00:13

Even if you (one) don't understand why a golly(wog) is offensive (it is); what do you (one) lose if you just decide not to have one, or buy them, or indulge people who think it is important for whatever (racist) reason that they persist or, let's face it, are defended and indulged? Seriously, what would your child or grandchild lose out on by being forced to play with other, less stylised dolls with less cultural freight?

Honestly. If you just think about it like that you are forced nose to nose with the nasty truth that if you give a shit about preserving gollies, you are hanging on to a nasty colonial racist slave driving past. because if you couldn't feel, or didn't care about, those associations, then there would be nothing to lose.

Garrick · 19/10/2015 00:14

Heh, cross-posted, Regina. I think it's easier not to be offended by a caricature of you - because you're then being the bigger person, kind of thing. As a descendant of predominantly white people there is more shame in that history for me than for you, perhaps?
(This is just a top-of-head thought, not a formal thesis, btw!)

ReginaBlitz · 19/10/2015 00:18

Garrick, but then I could say it goes both ways as my mum is white so I can't win either way! I do wonder if my dad wasn't black and I wasn't mixed race wether I would still collect/ like them and probably not.

Garrick · 19/10/2015 00:19

Yeah, probably not.