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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be utterly sick of this child.

124 replies

Singsongsungagain · 16/10/2015 20:07

Long long story...
Dd1 has known a girl since they were at nursery together. They're now in year 4. This girl has repeatedly been horrible to her (stealing her shoes and throwing them across a field when she was on a swing/hitting her/kicking her/saying utterly vile things about her unborn sibling- just awful).
There was a big show down a while ago when we had spoken to the school and ended up speaking to the parents who were friends of ours. As a result the parents stopped speaking to us- told us their child was "angelic" and blamed our daughter for not wanting to play with her (I wonder why?!) and therefore emotionally damaging her.
After this things settled down, my child was left alone with her lovely friends who are every bit as kind as she is and wouldn't harm a fly.
Today, this child decided my daughter "had" to play with her. She literally dragged her by the arm away from her friends. My daughter said she daren't say no as she's scared of what she would do to her.

Now what? I've spoken to school loads of times. The parents think she's wonderful- despite actually witnessing some of her nastiness towards my child.

Half the issue is my daughter is too nice to her and doesn't stick up for herself but I don't want to change that or tell her to hit back- she's lovely and should be allowed to stay that way!
Ahhhhhhh!!!!

OP posts:
Baconyum · 17/10/2015 01:43

Lovely as your daughter is yes you also need to teach her to be assertive. My dd has been bullied too.

Ime when dealing with a school that won't deal with the issue be clear, calm, everything in writing but also remind them they have a legal duty of care and that you can and will take it higher if necessary.

While I perhaps should have taken my own advice I have to say having a very stern word with the until then useless head teacher in front of the governors meant the situation was resolved the next day!

Also my sister was bullied at school, school were useless, parents kept encouraging her to be more assertive but to no avail. Until one day the bully pushed her too far and sister smacked her one right across the face. While not advocating violence, the bullying did stop. But then it would have stopped a lot earlier if the school had dealt with it properly.

Senpai · 17/10/2015 02:34

Yep, as others have said, definitely get it all in writing and make sure they know that you're building a paper trail.

Trust me, they will NOT want an incident in the wake of several emails telling them there is a problem.

April2013 · 17/10/2015 02:45

Sounds like you should tackle the school more forcefully and possibly go above their head too - speak to bullying charities for advice. I was bullied as a child and the school were useless so it went on for years, this was such a shame for both me and my bully. You might need to get the LA to get involved? Im not sure what is possible. Don't allow the school to forget about it, stay on their backs by email \phone\face to face. What do bullying charities recommend you do to support your child? I wonder if there might be a way to encourage her friend s to back her up when things happen? Good luck

CantSleepClownsWillEatMe · 17/10/2015 02:51

Agree you really need to push it with the school but as pps have said it really is important that your DD knows how to be assertive. That's not at all to imply that she's in any way to blame but I think sometimes when it comes to girls we can confuse assertive with aggressive. She'll still be the same lovely girl you know her to be but with the skills to confidently deal with people.

I think you said she was worried she might get in trouble? Can I suggest you talk her through what that means. As in what will happen, will she be told off, get a detention, what is it she fears when she says that?

My DD is 6 and she's quite a gentle little soul. DH and I are very conscious of building her confidence in interacting with others including ways to stand up for herself when necessary. We find that sometimes when she's worried about something (like getting " in trouble" at school, it came up recently in fact) talking her through what specifically that would mean seems to show her that it wouldn't be the world ending thing she thinks it is. Also letting her know that we would if necessary speak to teacher and so on.

mathanxiety · 17/10/2015 04:00

I agree with you Katarzyna and Baconyum. I would add 'don't get caught' to what you said. One of my sisters had no more trouble from one particular girl after punching her in the nose. Some people don't understand any other form of communication.

CantSleepClownsWillEatMe · 17/10/2015 04:15

Yes unfortunately math that's probably true. As adults we're very quick to say Oh violence is never the answer but I couldn't blame any child who lashed out after sustained bullying, nor a parent at the end of their tether with worry tacitly condoning it. I suspect a shove or a punch doesn't have the same long term damaging effect on the recipient as the bullying and belittling has on the victim.

Singsongsungagain · 17/10/2015 08:58

The trouble is (not really a trouble) my daughter isn't one for breaking the rules. She would be devastated to be told off by a teacher for her behaviour.
My strategy I think is going to be to write to the school reminding them of previous incidents and informing them of the recent one. I will tell them that I have told my daughter to stay away from this girl and to yell loudly if she is grabbed by her again. I'll make it clear that I expect no consequences for my child for "being unkind" to her for refusing to play with her.

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Wolfiefan · 17/10/2015 09:04

Singsong any school that says they don't have a bullying problem is deluding themselves. I wouldn't want my child going to a school like that.
If you don't want to move her then you need to document everything. Keep a dated record and alert school of every incident. Ask to see the head. Insist on knowing how they intend to "safeguard" your child whilst she's in their care. If they refuse to acknowledge the issue then I would say you'd refer it to County and inform OFSTED.
Your poor child. Pencil pushed in ears. Bloody awful.

ginorwine · 17/10/2015 09:34

Meeting with the school
At our old school they got the kids together
The affected child had access to playground assistant at all times
Confidence building

ginorwine · 17/10/2015 09:38

Sorry got interrupted and posted .
Good luck
Tell your daughter do not allow her to be dragged away at all .shes trying to divide and rule .
Never mind the angelic rubbish .the school need to establish appropriate behevoiur and spell it out and reinforce it .
Keep reoeating this .they should not be minimising .

ginorwine · 17/10/2015 09:42

Agree with wolf .
They will have safeguarding stratagies in place .
They need to demonstrate them and adhere to them .
Use that terminology with them .
Assertively , calmly .if it doesn't work go higher as suggested by wolf .
If the school know you are serious and know your stuff then they I hope will react more appropriately .
Thinking of you and send good wishes .

brittabot · 17/10/2015 09:54

By the way it's not just girls who do this, my 5 year old DS was told by another boy that if he told the teacher he had been kicking him he wouldn't invite him to his party Angry

VocationalGoat · 17/10/2015 10:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HexBramble · 17/10/2015 10:31

These scenarios point more and more towards the idea of installing cameras in schools. Albeit, in my secondary school, we've been able to locate and playback clips of bullying incidents and even when the parents are in shouting the odds, we are able to bring them to our cctv room and prove to them now 'angelic' their little Johnny is when he's punching ten bells out of another pupil.

CCTV in all schools is a must I reckon because too many schools deny that they have bullying issues. CCTV and an evidence trail.

contrary13 · 17/10/2015 10:59

The school isn't going to want to acknowledge that it does have a bullying problem... because, if they do, then not only will it make it/the staff look bad, but it could also potentially prevent other parents from sending their children there in the future. I think the same can be said for every school, to be honest, and I understand why. Parents have power, at the end of the day. We communicate about schools with other parents and, as such, can influence others decisions as to whether they want their children to go there - or not.

However.

Your daughter is being assaulted by another child. Let's be frank about this. You said: 'We've also had her pushing our dd off a chair during a lesson, shoving pencils in her ears, pushing her to the floor then dragging her around a corridor etc etc.'

That's assault.

Pushing her to the floor, then dragging her around, pushing her off a chair... that's physical assault, and will have been very frightening to your DD... but the bit which really frightens me is that this child has pushed pencils into your daughter's ears! The potential consequences of this are horrific!

If a woman posted here saying that her partner or husband had done this sort of thing to them, it would be classed as domestic violence! There is actual violence being used against your child - although obviously not domestic - and the school aren't going to want to address it for the reason I stated above. So.

You make them address it.

You need to go over their heads. Report this to the LEA. Report the school to Ofsted. If necessary, and the school still refuses to take this safely and protect your child and others from this child (who isn't angelic in the slightest, and I understand that parents can often be blind to their children's faults... but really? Where is she learning this behaviour from?!)... because your DD won't be the only one, and this behaviour will escalate the longer it is left untackled... you report it to the police. Who will - I promise you - make the school take it seriously. You have to protect your daughter. Show her that you will do everything in your power to keep her safe, and you'll teach her that it's okay to be lovely but that it's also necessary to stand up to those who hurt us. You'll show her that she's loved, and valued (which I have no doubt that she is... but being bullied can often cause us to feel that we're not worth protecting, if we confide in someone and they do nothing to protect or help us). That alone will give her confidence in herself.

My DS had a bullying incident at his "we don't have a problem with bullying here!" school. When the (useless) headteacher refused to do anything, we reported it to the LEA (who were brilliant and very instrumental in encouraging the useless head to retire; the new headteacher is the best thing that's ever happened to our little village's school) and when he was told by the Y6 boy that he was going to kill him, the police were also fantastic. They made the school take it seriously, and the little boy who had physically assaulted my son was given the actual help which he needed. Sadly, he didn't have the happy homelife that his parents made out... there was a lot going on behind the scenes, which made him "act out" for the attention it got him. But if it had been left, he may well have ended up seriously hurting someone - and I was adamant that someone wasn't going to be either my son, or on my conscious!

In essence, by not forcing the school to actually perform their full duty of care towards your daughter, you're storing up trouble for both girls, I'm afraid. You don't know why this girl is hurting your daughter... you may not actually care (perfectly normal not to)... but you can stop it from continuing. And your daughter will appreciate it. Maybe, one day, the other girl will, too.

contrary13 · 17/10/2015 11:02

Ahem.

'safely' ought to read 'seriously'. If the school still refuses to take this seriously.

Nataleejah · 17/10/2015 11:42

The "angelic" factor is that some children are very two-faced when it comes to being around parents vs being around peers.

Singsongsungagain · 17/10/2015 14:36

The girl is thoroughly spoilt by her parents. She has learned to dominate and that hers is the only opinion that counts. If she wants you to move then it's ok to push you away. If she wants you to play with her it's ok to drag you there.
Her mum was with her and me and my dd when I was pregnant and the girl said "wouldn't it be funny if your baby was born dead". Barely an eyelid was battered by the mother.

We have spoken to the school so many times and they responded in part but never strongly enough to stop it for good.
We haven't moved her because, aside from this girl, my daughter has lots of friends there. Frankly, why should she move from her outstanding school where she is otherwise very happy because of a bully?
I have absolutely made it clear to my daughter that I am 100% on her side. She knows that we have nothing to do with the girl's parents because of their attitude to the bullying. She knows that we have been into school lots of times and I have let her read letters that have gone in about what is happening.

I have made it clear to her that she must yell at the top of her lungs if she is grabbed again and that if she ends up in trouble because of defending herself then I will be immediately going into school.
My daughter is gifted and talented- on a level 5 in year 4 for everything. I am pretty confident that they won't want her to leave as they'll want her on their data!!

OP posts:
Wolfiefan · 17/10/2015 14:39

You'd be amazed singsong. I was told by a Head to remove my bright DS if I didn't like the bullying!
Shock

mummytime · 17/10/2015 15:10

I would look at alternative schools, if only to see what is out there. And to realise not all schools are deny bullying exists.

Complain in writing about the latest incident.

Keep a diary.

Boost your DD's self confidence and get her to report it or shout out "leave me alone".

The other child could well have a SN, but having a mother in denial is not going to help anyone.

Singsongsungagain · 17/10/2015 15:31

To be honest I suspect SN. There hasn't, to my knowledge, been a diagnosis though and I would be astounded if the parents pushed for one considering their views.

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Baconyum · 18/10/2015 03:29

But are you going to take it higher singsong? The school have done bugger all so far. Also while I sympathise if the bullying child has sn your priority is your child's safety.

80schild · 18/10/2015 04:13

Feeling for your DD. I remember being bullied as a child and it is really tough. From reading what you have said it sounds like this girl is out of control and I can understand why she is worried about fighting back.

It is fine for all of these people to be saying "fight back" but what if she does get hurt (this girl sounds quiet physically able) - if you are going down this path she needs to be shown how to do it so it hurts her enough to act as a deterrent and she can defend herself as well.

I also think bringing it up with the LEA is definitely the way forward and telling the school if they don't deal with it, you will be taking it further and seeking legal advice (they are breaching their duty of care; your daughter is getting hurt daily at school emotionally and physically).

Confidence building would be good for your daughter - this must be really affecting her. Maybe learning a martial art would be a good thing and learning to say no really assertively.

Although your daughter doesn't sound like she is too affected at the moment it is one of those things that really chips away at confidence. It took years for me to get to a point of being remotely assertive. Good luck with it all.

tanukiton · 18/10/2015 04:35

Umm have you tried role playing with your daughter ? So she has the words and actions ready for the next time? if you could model it for your daughter what to say or how loud ? Might help.....

Singsongsungagain · 18/10/2015 09:26

Yep we've done the role playing thing before when it was at its worse and have been practising this weekend!

SN isn't an excuse at all, especially given that there isn't a diagnosis, it's just my own personal opinion as I believe the girl exhibits a lot of autistic tendencies. If her parents were able to acknowledge that there may be some additional needs then I suspect things would rapidly improve but that is very unlikely.
And yes. This is it now. I have written a long and detailed letter which makes it clear that I have had my fill and that the next step is outside authorities.

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