To not want to ask BIL and SIL to take care of DD because of their views on WOHM?

[RevoltingPeasant]

DH and I are making our wills and at the same time, we thought we should discuss what would happen to DD if neither of us was around to take care of her. Pretty remote contingency as we are in our mid 30s and fairly healthy, but seems sensible to have a plan!

I want to ask my mum. She is 67, very fit, has a large house and is comfortably off. She was also a great mum to 4 kids. I realise it would be a massive ask, but it would only be in the very extreme situation of us both dying, so I don't think it is hugely entitled. Plus if she got frail as she got older we could review the request.

DH would prefer to ask BIL (his brother) and SIL. They are early 30s, finished having DC and BIL has a good job as a manager. In that case DD would grow up with her cousins.

I am not keen because I think they both, SIL particularly, have quite sexist views. SIL is very nice but we have different values. She thinks it is wrong for mums to work unless they are absolutely on the breadline. Before we had DD, she would often make comments about a friend of hers who happens to work in the same profession I do: "she leaves her DC in nursery for 12 hours a day...I don't know why they went through IVF just to leave them like that...I could never do that" etc.

When DH and I got married she assumed I would change my name. When we had DD she assumed I would quit work, "or at least take a couple of years out, just till she's in school". To her credit, she immediately shut up when she realised I was making different choices. She does not bang on. But from these and other comments, I gather she believes all women should give up work to look after their DC.

I don't judge her but her decisions are not ones I'd make myself. I don't want my daughter raised in an environment where her ultimate destiny is automatically regarded as marriage and babies. AIBU?

I understand how you feel, we have had the same discussions. However, we took the view that in the extremely unlikely event of us both dying, what our children would need most would be a loving home, and my SIL loves my children very much. We parent in totally different ways, but I know they'd be cared for and loved.

I'm just making the point that in the case of a bereaved orphaned child, I believe consistency of care to be vital...working and being a parent is an immense juggling act. I think feminist principles are less important in such a situation.

Anyhow DD is in FT nursery now and will be in ASC when she is older!

Hackmum tbh my mum. Though I am wavering on that one now as I take on board points about her age. BIL and SIL are very polite but I know they disapprove of my choices and we both tread carefully around each other as we both know we are so different. I like them but will never be close to them.

I would definitely not want my children raised by people with sexist views, just as I would not want them raised by people with racist views. YANBU.

YANBU - her guardian should be someone who shares your values.

Your sister shouldn't be discounted because she's not "settled" - I am my DN's guardian and now I'm settled and pregnant, but I would have been proud to step up and take him on at any point prior to this.

china my mum would. She loves children and DD is her first grandchild. She messages all the time asking for photos, updates etc. SIL is lovely with her but always does that jokey "isn't it nice to give them back" routine. Which is fair enough, she has DC of her own and is only just outmof the nappy stage so naturally less interested in babies.

But then I get what you are all saying about DM age.

Argh! Anyhow off to pick Dd up from the orphanage nursery now but interested in more views even if you think IABU!

When dp and I did our wills we considered this, and decided to appoint one sister each to be joint guardians.

I am joint guardian for both of my sister's families should the worst happen to me and DP, and DP and his older sister were appointed guardians by his younger sister for her (now adult) daughter.

We took the opportunity to talk about what sort of upbringing we'd give them should this happen.

Alphonso DSis is currently applying for a permanent job in her field and will doubtless move to wherever she gets one. I hesitate to ask now as she is kinda uprooted. But I think she will have a job within a year or less and will then buy a house where she is. I don't want to burden her with a big responsibility till the dust settles in her own life w bit iyswim.

Maybe I should just trust to not pegging out over thr next year and ask someone in twelve months!

Forgot to say, the SIL I chose to be guardian if necessary for my own children is the elder one, although she's not a mother herself, because DP and I both think she would make a better job of it than younger SIL. (See many other threads for the antics of that particular SIL though!)

You could put it down that your Mum should decided who is best equipped to care for your DD if the worst should happen.

That's what we've done. MIL is the person we trust the most to know where our children would be best, and what we'd think is the best option. If that was next week it would be living with her, if it's in 10 or 20 years then the trust we're putting in her is deciding where they are best.

We had difficulty agreeing on this too. In principle I wanted my sister but we rejected that idea as don't agree with BIL's parenting (and he is the main carer, working PT rather than sister who works FT). So went with DH's sister and BIL whose parenting is more like ours but who have done different views on other things. Really I would like their godmother to have them but she isn't physically capable long term due to illness. But actually your will normally only states the guardian who decides who they live with, not that it would definitely be them. So I would probably put your DM but state that if not alive then your sister. That way your DM would know that if she wasn't up to it then you would be happy with your sister. But that assumes your DH will agree to that!

Yes, fingers crossed the next year goes OK, OP!

Maybe agree it with her informally now and solidify it when things are more settled? Obviously it's one of those things we all hope will never happen anyway.

I think your mum may struggle at her age,especially considering it's most likely that if anything were to happen it would be in the future rather than now.

I also find your 'opinions' in regard to your SIL incredibly odd. Assuming a woman would change her name when married is perfectly normal because it's what most women do. Also, a lot of people would struggle to leave a baby in childcare for 12 hours a day and many women take time out after having a child -all perfectly normal. Your examples of her 'being girly' in a 'traditional way' and stating examples like she's not into riding bikes (wtf?!) and doesn't like getting her face wet is a downright bizarre way to describe 'girly' or 'traditional'. I very much doubt her not taking her daughter swimming is anything to do with being 'girly' or 'traditional' . And you are concerned that she wouldn't encourage your daughter to do 'non standard' things due to this? Really? Odd. Very odd.

I'm interested to see some posters think 'feminist principles' are an optional extra . They aren't for me. I would not want any of my girls raised by people who I felt, however loving and well intentioned, would not give them the upbringing and freedom to fly that I want them to have.

This reminds me of the film Raising Helen. The point there is that the person who is right to parent your children may not be the person who convention dictates is the most suitable. That doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with that person. The OP doesn't think her sil would be unloving, cruel or distant. She just thinks her mother will parent the dd in the way she wants her to be parented.

Is this about SIL views on the role of parents or that you would rather your dc are brought up by your side or the family rather than dh's? You naturally feel closer to your dm and sister whereas your dh feels closer to his sisyer and therefore feels more comfortable than you in them bringing your dc up?

I do think your dm is too old though.

Nobody said 'feminist principles' (a term I use loosely) are an optional extra. however, the ops view of things that are totally against feminism well aren't

OP, you need to have a back up plan with this. Its great having one person in your will. It would be far better to have 2 or 3.

first choice could be your mother. That's sorted. Second choice your sister and 3rd choice BIL?

Life is fickle and cruel sometimes and even the best laid plans cock up meaning your well thought out will won't be adhered to. You need to think of several eventualities.

I have. Apparently its excessive but my first choice guardian for DC was involved in 2 car accidents last year. He nearly died. Thats why I have a second choice.

You need to choose someone with your own values. On that basis, we didn't choose family and went for friends instead. Is that an option?

Our dd's are now adult and we are still alive and kicking, so it's academic now. I suggest you tell family who you have chosen so that if the worst happens, your wishes are not challenged.

If your nephews/nieces look like a happy bunch, I would go for the BIL/SIL arrangement. If you both were to die, she will need someone that can make her happy and, secondly, that could raise her in the way you would do (having said that, at 8.5 months, I think your child rearing expectations are still pretty much in a theoretical status, you may end up being a completely different mother in a few years time to what you think you will be at present).

I wouldn't go for your mum. She might be lovely, but she is at an age where she might not have the energy to your girl through the early years into teenage (and the generational gap will be HUGE). If something happened to her, what would happen to your DD? I think it would be better for your DD to grow into a steady family network who could provide her with company and support throughout her life (My cousins are a huge part of my life and a fantastic source of support even when we are all around our 50s these days, while my mother, who is younger than your mum, finds it difficult to connect with my teenager)

Your mother is definitely too old. I looked after my dgd at 60 for 2 days a week, but full-time would have been too much. Ime, it's a rare 70+ who hasn't developed some health issue or other. By which time, your dd would be only 3!

I don't know how this fits in with current feminist thinking, but ime children are born with personalities and it's v difficult to turn a tomboy into a girly-girl and vv.

I also think it would be too much of an imposition to make your dsis guardian at this point in her life.

If your dbil and dsis are basically good people, and are willing to take it on, I think they would be the obvious choice.

Sorry - dsil not dsis

I sympathise with your dilemma, OP, as it's one I and DP have agonised over, over the years. The truth is there may not be a right answer - after all, no one wil bring your DD up exactly the way you would - and there may not even be a good compromise to be had. I like the suggestion upthread of appointing one or more decision-making guardians who could make whatever arrangements seemed best/most sustainable at the time. And agree that a stable, loving environment is probably the single most important factor.

FWIW, I don't think disapproving of putting small children in FT nursery is necessarily incompatible with being a feminist.

I think I posted similar to this a few months back - briefly that I don't get on with my SIL, so should we ask friends instead. The truth is that our DS sees his aunt fairly regularly with her parents (the grandparents) and that our DS has a good loving relationship with all 3 of them.
In the event that something horrible happened and we both died rather than think of our wishes of how DS should be brought up - should we be ensuring that our DS is surrounded by those he loves the most. Were we thinking of our egos that DS would be brought up 'like us' or should we recognise that he's going to have the most traumatic experience possible - losing his parents, so would probably be happier with Auntie (and nanna and grandpa) rather than our friends (who he does see and know but not half as well as immediate family).
It took me a while to get to this point - but funnily once I accepted it, I actually felt better than I did while I was assuming we would ask friends to be the guardians. I stopped thinking about me and my views and was thinking about a very vulnerable boy who has just had his world collapse and did it really matter that SIL is a materialistic WAG wannabe when I know she will love him dearly and do her best to make him happy.

I sympathise OP, as mine would go into care - there just isn't anybody I can ask who would have them, so have to take my chances.

I think in this instance though your sister sounds a better bet than your mum