To have zero sympathy for this woman

[wasonthelist]

The tearful woman on BBC Question Time claims to have been a Tory voter. She's reaping what she sows.
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hame-you-hardworking-mums-tearful-6643284

I do wish this Conservatives did not have a majority of the electorate was finally laid to rest - it is becoming tedious

Well it's no less tedious than "most people wanted the Tories/voted for them etc" and "the nation spoke/decided" that keeps on getting trotted out. By any measure, a very small proportion of people in the nation voted for what we ended up with, and that seems to fly in the face of democracy. That's not a party point, it would be the same whoever we'd wound up with.

So, are you saying that we haven't had democracy since 1931?

Yes I am, in fact, we've probably never had a proper representative democracy fit for a developed nation.

Try living in Scotland...

The House of Lords motion is hopefully going ahead - www.theguardian.com/money/2015/oct/21/house-of-lords-table-motion-to-block-44bn-cuts-to-tax-credits

Though I read that the Tories may be able to suspend the House of Lords or 'flood the chamber with Tory peers', so we'll see. Sneaky bastards. Actually lying on live TV and getting cross that people want to hold them to account - ugh.

Another '97 is inevitable. I hope so. I felt absolutely sick when Major won in 1992 but they were slaughtered 5 years later. I can't really see it happening again this time.

Still, who knows? Maggie Thatcher messed around trying out the poll tax in Scotland; Labour took the Celtic fringe for granted, and the Lib Dems shored the Tories up last time and what has happened? 25 years later Scotland can only muster 3 non-SNP MPs, so perhaps there is hope for the rest of us.

I don't actually think that people in work should be shored up by tax credits, but I would want to see the large employers held to account. Maybe there should be a direct levy on them in proportion to the number of employees claiming tax credits. Not that this will happen.

On tax credits and comparing our system to other EU states the Government stated yesterday on the EU negotiations: ‘Someone coming to the UK from elsewhere in the EU, who is employed on the minimum wage and who has two children back in their home country, will receive around £700 per month in benefits … more than twice what they would receive in Germany, and three times more than in France.’

That does illustrate the tax credit issue and the fact its cost has risen from £1bn a year to £30bn.

So your making this about immigration now? Do you think the jobs wouldn't exist without the migrants to do them? Also higher minimum wages, rent controls etc exist in the countries sited, so it's an unfair direct comparison.

The "tax credit issue" costs so much because there has been absolutely zero control over the cost of living. And zero control over wage compression.

Punishing low earners and driving millions of families into poverty, is the wrong way to go about it entirely.

Controls need to be implemented to reduce the impact of escalating property prices, travel costs and untility bills.

It's anachronistic and devastating to contemporary society, to implement a strategy reducing the state in every corner, reducing taxes for corporations and property owners, and intentionally widen the weath divide.

WTF are they playing at.

"Austerity" is a choice. The lives of people are reality.

There is not a chance in hell the Tories will get away with this, and survive past 5 years.

reducing taxes for corporations and property owners, and intentionally widen the weath divide.

That's where a lot of the problem lies, IMO. If those groups were seen to be taking their fair share of the burden there would be less to complain about.

There is not a chance in hell the Tories will get away with this, and survive past 5 years.
I wish I could believe you.

The way I see it is that under a Tory government we have;

Cuts to benefits, maintaning the status quo with the banks, going easy or giving more to the rich and more for wealthy pensioners and those with housing wealth. Not dealing with abuse of the tax system by multinationals etc. Maintain open borders so pressure on jobs, housing, NHS schools etc.

Under a Labour government we would have;

More unsustainable debt for pet projects. More money thrown at selective public sector workers. More incentives for people to work less or given huge amounts of benefits. No cuts to pensioners benefits and continued status quo re the banks. Maintain open borders so pressure on jobs, housing, NHS schools etc.

Both parties seem to have extremes in relation to who they favour and the middle income workers are the ones that get screwed under both parties being neither rich enough to benefit from the Tories or poor enough to benefit from Labour.

Squidzin, you are absolutely right. Housing benefit and tax credits are symptoms of the high cost of living not solutions. Instead of dealing with these by capping housing costs and ensuring people are paid a liveable wage, we have a system where high housing costs are dealt with via subsidies to those very people who make housing cost so much and subsidies to the very people who have lowered the wages of their employees. All it does is push up prices for everybody under the guise of helping the poor.

Evil I' d agree with much of what you say, except that The Conservatives have done a great job of pretending they aren't borrowing stacks, when in fact they are.

The answer to a high cost of living isn't more benefits. It's made it worse. I feel a lot less sympathy for this woman when I heard her position. Apparently she runs a nail bar which makes no profit whatsoever. And gets all her income from benefits and maintenance. And what about some other person who wants to set up a nail bar as a going concern and has to compete with her business. It's totally unfair. I would agree with large businesses faces penalities for having employees on tax credits.

'The answer to a high cost of living isn't more benefits. It's made it worse.'

But this government is doing nothing to combat that high cost of living.

When I think about it, you are probably right Evil. It's pretty straight forward when you put it like that.

I'm not sure they're even doing a great job of pretending they're not putting us deeper in a hole, they just have most of the 'popular press' on their side (hmm, wonder why the billionaire Rupert Murdoch would approve of the Tories?) so it doesn't get reported. The Guardian and Independent print some things, but are just dismissed at the 'loony left media'.

1. We have had in many jobs wage stagnation for 10 years.

1. That is in part because the state has chosen to interfere in the market by giving tax credits to subsidise employers to pay low wages.

1. It is also because we have not really had much inflation - not like the 3 years in the 70 s when we had 60% inflation over those 3 years, nor the days when my mortgage rate was 12% interest. I am not saying inflation is good - it erodes savings, punishes the saver and the old and makes things unpredictable and difficult although it does mean those with mortgages end up owing a lot less in real terms. It benefits the borrower who has already bought.

1. I am pro-immigration on the whole. I was not trying to make an immigration point - I had just seen that quote and was amazed at how generous we are compard to places like Germany which people hold up as some wonderful system.

Maybe there should be a direct levy on them in proportion to the number of employees claiming tax credits. Not that this will happen.

As much as I would love to see this, the gov and local council workers likely make up a huge "employer" paying low wages. Think of all the cleaners, TAs, learning assistants. Nurses claim TC ffs!

I really don't know what to do. I do 16hrs of uni per week and 24hrs work in semi-skilled proffesion, as well as looking after 2 young children alone. If I up my hours to 30 and go in an extra day, i'm even worse off than I am now , I get more than min wage and I'm under 25 anyway so wage increases mean nothing. £45 per week for me in April, thats what I spend on food and household goods/ nappies per week. Don't drive. Family buys school shoes and coats etc, I've cut back to the bone this year.

At least they are finally starting to report on the actual scale of these changes and that the CTC threashold is lowering too now. At first the media focused on the 2 child 2017 rule, it was like none of them worked out what it would actually mean.

And then the reports were "some families may be worse off by up to £1000 a year" like it would just be a few. I think if you're earning the min you lose is £1300 due to the taper change? They're finally starting to add up the figures now.

I think it is brilliant that at last a normal hardworking person is shown in the media to be losing out from tax credits. The Tory party pulled the wool over people's eyes by making out hardworking people won't be affected when what they should have said is well off people won't be affected.

If you are referring to Michelle whatsername - she is not a 'normal hardworking person' by my definition
She runs a 'nail business' from her front room which makes no income
She has children (4) from age 5 to 15 - no childcare requirements then
She receives maintenance from father of said children
She gets £400 per week from benefits
She pays no NI or tax on any of that income
In fact it has been shown that she will not 'lose' under the new rules.
I do wish they had found a real life case of hardship to prove who the cuts will hurt not the left wing plant on QT

BTW Gideon said only this week that no-one should have been in any doubt before voting that he was going to do this.

Ha, it sounds hard. Did you have a choice about when to have chidlren though? Plenty of women wait until their 30s - my parents did; my grandfather didn't marry until he was 40 because he couldn't afford to keep a family. Might you hvae hda a bit more money to support them had you not had them until you were 35 rather than having 2 by your age of 25? That life choice might have made things a bit easier for you and not relying on tax credits.

You are a very clever lady Xenia Grazia.

Take s look at what happens to fertility as a woman ages.

I waited until I was 35 and struggled massively as a result to get pregnant.