To have zero sympathy for this woman

[wasonthelist]

The tearful woman on BBC Question Time claims to have been a Tory voter. She's reaping what she sows.
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hame-you-hardworking-mums-tearful-6643284

Yes, wasonthe list, I read a novel about Lloyds names and the sense of entitlement was sickening. I couldn't sympathise with any of them.

calmYo so should it be used to fund the lifestyle choice to work?

A line parent in work cost the tax payer more than one not in work

If I tried to tailor my contributions to what I think it's fair and reasonable to spend my tax on, believe me, it would be a lot different, but that's not how it works.

This is a good point. It's not an a la carte system. We decide collectively by voting.

Obviously, the Tories got the most votes this time, so they have a chance to govern. If they get it wrong, they will be chucked out.

Its not a pay in get out system.

Another good point.

People doing well, even if it seems to be solely by dint of their own hard work, benefit from living in the society that we do. A society that protects their property rights, invests in infrastructure, educates its workforce, etc. And they must and should pay in to support it.

A line parent in work cost the tax payer more than one not in work

Only if the lone parent is also claiming help with childcare costs.

"The chouice to work" in most cases people choose to work less hours because the costs of childcare are prohibitive so that full time work would not pay, or because they are single parents and doing it all on their own, or going full time would mean shifts and more complications

The "Choice" factor you trumpet has so many variables that it cannot be used as a viable critique.

Do none of you people ever think: " There but for the grace of god go I."?

The personal responsibility, self reliance thing is fine, but no one is an island, luck and more play huge part in your circumstances. You must recognise that before you start pontficiating.

Oh and above someone said sometbhing nice! Thanks for that, hope you weren't being sarcastic lol!

CharityBarnum Sun 18-Oct-15 20:09:13
Yes, wasonthe list, I read a novel about Lloyds names and the sense of entitlement was sickening. I couldn't sympathise with any of them.
I personally know one who pissed off to Spain to avoid paying up. Has never come back (not altogether a bad thing although not sure why the Spaniards deserved her).

Obviously, the Tories got the most votes this time,

I wish people would stop saying this - it's simply untrue.

OK, they got more votes than any other single party.

Better?

I quite carefully did not say majority of votes.

Grazia1984 Sun 18-Oct-15 15:45:06
.... I have paid a lot into the system and will get nothing back

Total bollocks - you have no way of knowing what you might "get back". I won't be so crass as to detail all the possible ways you might get "paid back", but you clearly haven't thought this through, even slightly.

I don't know why I bother to respond to your posts though - your MO isn't debate - you just move on and post something new that is equally unsupportable and illogical.

wasonthelist that's bloody typical.

The personal responsibility, self reliance thing is fine, but no one is an island, luck and more play huge part in your circumstances. You must recognise that before you start pontficiating.

Totally agree with this - so many people do OK and then start to believe their own propaganda and imagine it happened purely because of their "hard work" - that is hard work defined by them of course. Of course many successful folk have worked hard, but many wealthy people have never done a hand's turn and never will. I don't say that out twisted socialist envy - it's just true. In fact the "politics of envy" jibe that's often aimed at me might be better applied to the small-minded DM "Why should I pay for her?" attitude that so many aspirational Tories seem to have.

What research I wonder. Some leftie funded organisation I expect. Housing Benefit has had an effect on House prices and rents. Anybody not wise enough to recognise that is probably not worth arguing either. People can carry on believing that Father Christmas Jeremy Corbyn will give all the poor folk sacks of money and then we'll all be happy.

HeighHoghItsBacktoWorkIGo Sun 18-Oct-15 20:26:58
OK, they got more votes than any other single party.

Better?

Fair enough, but I was reading it in the context of the other thing you said -
If they get it wrong, they will be chucked out.

Considering that way more people voted for something else this time (and to be fair that applies to most post-war governments) I wish I shared your optimism that we, the electorate, could so easily rid ourselves of miscreant governments.

Viviennemary Sun 18-Oct-15 20:36:26
What research I wonder.
No you don't, so stop pretending- you've already said you don't care about research that doesn't back up your opinion, why not just be honest?

Ohh Viv, you asked I'll tell. Its reasearch done in the treasury it's self, a Landlords group and research done by local councils too, a direct quote from that of Tower Hamlets is:

"the LHA limits are having no impact on limiting rental inflation in Tower Hamlets which is now running way above CPI."

There have been caps on what you can claim for the last few years yet rent has increased in London at an an average of 12.5 between 2014 and 2015, is this caused by HB/LHA that is capped?

"Some lefty organisation"? Yet you in the past have quite happily linked to right wing think tanks and the press.

Corbyn can give money out to poor people? No again a fundamental problem in your argument is that the peoples QE will be spent on infrastructure and job creation.

Where has the money handed out to banks and financial organisations in QE gone? We printed ebough of it £375 billion or so,thats right, into the pockets of the wealthy whose wealth has grown by 30% since 2008. But its okay to give it to them isn't it?

OK I'll be honest. That made me laugh! Research can prove anything. I heard a poliltician say this so it must be true. (They always dismiss research that doesn''t suit them so I'm in good company). It wouldn't surprise me if there was a bit of a U turn like the child benefit for higher rate tax payers. I think they raised the threshold in the end. I've always been against these huge payouts of housing benefit which benefits nobody except landlords.

"Research can be used to prove anything"

Which is always said by the tinfoil hat brigade when their predjudices are disporved.

You make me laugh, do you tell your doctor that research proves anything when he tells you something you don't want to here?

Grazia1984 Sun 18-Oct-15 15:45:06
.... I have paid a lot into the system and will get nothing back

Grazia has the unique advantage of having been personally assured by her god that neither she nor any of her children will ever suffer a misfortune meaning they need help from the rest of us.

Perhaps she does not have fire insurance on her house since that is just the lucky majority who don't have fires supporting the few who do.

"The Lloyd's Names would be another great example of this - thrilled until the cheques stopped coming." God yes! I'd forgotten them!

"The "Choice" factor you trumpet has so many variables that it cannot be used as a viable critique." Yyy pre welfare state there was a 'choice' work or starve!

"Grazia has the unique advantage of having been personally assured by her god that neither she nor any of her children will ever suffer a misfortune meaning they need help from the rest of us.

Perhaps she does not have fire insurance on her house since that is just the lucky majority who don't have fires supporting the few who do." Well put though I'm sceptical any God would support these sort of views!

Frankly I'd be very interested to know (and I know this isn't possible) how Grazia's bin men/street cleaners/the retail staff that serve her/NHS staff that treat her or her dc/teachers of her dc/council staff that administrate her life and surroundings etc would feel about/treat her if they knew her views? Many of whom will be or have been in receipt of benefits.

I just love that someone can come on and say they've got 5 children but have never claimed anything. So you haven't had 5 NHS births, 5 children go through education, yet you begrudge a single parent of one claiming childcare costs through tax credits.

I actually agree with cookie I'd really really love to see free childcare, good quality childcare, right from babies to teenagers. People can work as many or as little hours but then self fund it with the exception of disabled people.

how can you say you get nothing from the system when you benefit from living in a society made up of other people all interacting together, when you use and depend upon the infrastructure and institutions build up over generations from the accumulated effort of thousands and thousands of other people

there are no self made people

Grazia doesn't have bin men/street cleaners/retail staff that serve her/NHS staff that treat her or her dc/teachers of her dc/council staff that administrate her life and surroundings.

She also doesn't have a police or fire service

That's why she is able to say she gets nothing.

This thread and in particular certain posts keeps making me think of this:

www.ted.com/talks/paul_piff_does_money_make_you_mean/transcript?language=en

It's been linked to on similar threads. Consider this, for the context of this thread, life is a game of monopoly that is rigged but...instead of the player rigged to be better off being better off just in terms of money, they have also:

Never been disadvantaged educationally or in terms of upbringing
Never been or will be disabled or chronically ill
Never been drawn into an abusive relationship
Never been abandoned by their child/rens father
Never been a victim of crime including a con
Never found themselves working for an unethical employer or even one that acts illegally
Etc