To have zero sympathy for this woman

[wasonthelist]

The tearful woman on BBC Question Time claims to have been a Tory voter. She's reaping what she sows.
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/hame-you-hardworking-mums-tearful-6643284

I supporter/support 5 cyhidlren myself working full time with no contribution from their father and no child benefit and no tax credits. So my taxes are keeping a lot of peoole who choose to work shorter hours. I have paid a lot into the system and will get nothing back for it other than the gratitude of the poor of course who kiss my feet at every turn.

It would provide more people with jobs as the need for childcare would go up and if they were not allowed to refuse children with extra needs then even better as lots of people say their local nurseries won't take their children. Staffing could be more if state funded

So how are the actual needs of these children with extra needs going to be met?

You must be on a ridiculous high wage Grazia. If you can live without tax credits and pay for child care for 5 children. If you use child care that is.
Think I need a career change. Does your place have any vacancies. I'm serious.

Well, she's certainly not a Care Assistant lighthouse! That's evidently the sort of job which should only be undertaken for 'pin money'.

"helena no I haven't mentioned maintenance much, I also haven't mentioned a lot iof things that weren't relevant to the OPs original post."

Of course its fucking relevant. Unbelievable misogyny here. Apparently you can get away with shirking responsibility if you have a penis because when it gets pointed out ppl with misogynistic agendas can just trot out the "its not relevant line. But of course it is.

longtimelurker, you are my hero (especially since I'm very poor at maths). Multiple times I would have hidden this thread in frustration and despair but I wanted to see your input. Admittedly you're preaching to the choir with me, but thank you anyway.

but is this all not going to change in the next couple of years with Universal credit coming in

how is that going to effect things

the little ive heard sounds even worse,but that is hearsay

Grazia your posts are getting really offensive with the "poor kissing your feet" comment.

Its the Tories who want to control the poor by keeping them poor and in debt (and the debts im talking about is having to use credit and loans to buy food)

Your posts aptly demonstrate that brains and common sense are two different things.

paramedic the supermarket i was talking about WONT increase my friends colleugues hours up from 28 and a half hours a week. As she has no DC she cant claim tax credits at all.

Shes tried looking for other work but the hours clash.

And many employers expect employees to be available but wont gurantee the hours.

So are they suddenly going to start paying ppl to be "on call" then. And if employers will definately up their hours then could you please explain the existence of zero hours contracts.

I supporter/support 5 cyhidlren myself working full time with no contribution from their father and no child benefit and no tax credits

I'm sorry, are you complaining or boasting about that bit?

Certainly things are getting better. Many more jobs are available than after the world crash in 2009. Work is out there. I have started seeing even local shops with notices on the doors saying they have vacancies which I have not seen in this bit of London for a long while. I moved hundreds of miles from support networks for work. That can work for some people. It worked for me.

(I work for myself so no pension, no sick pay, not maternity rights, but yes I've made it work. (It's not a nail bar)).

But the point is local shops are not going to pay the salaries to enable people to pay London rents. They'd need to be paying people around £60K a year to cover rent costs and the cost of living. Which is why the situation cannot go on with the government subsidising the high costs of living in certain areas to the extent they are at the moment.

Viviennemary, but the research shows that HB etc doesn't contribite to rent inflation in London. Yet another propregated myth, gah don't you people actually read rather than stating your predjudices?

" I have paid a lot into the system and will get nothing back for it other than the gratitude of the poor of course who kiss my feet at every turn."

Drivel, so you get nothing from the infrastructure of the country? Nothing from the rule of law and protection of property? Never had an ambulance or trip to A and E ( with 5 kids I doubt this), never been served in a shop by someone who is educated, not worked with/managed/employed people whose only way that they could afford to work was to have some form of TC. the list is endless Grazia, and as always your arguments don't stand up.

The more you earn, the more you are faciliatated to earn that money by the society around you, you need it all to work for you to be able to get what you do.

But then, I'm minted and still have these opinions Oh and I definately don't live in a zone 3 hell hole like you, my zone 2 des res is gorgeous. I've paid bucket loads of tax over the years, and worked in public service, maybe you should be kissing my feet for what I've paid and contributed in for you to beneift from?

. I have started seeing even local shops with notices on the doors saying they have vacancies which I have not seen in this bit of London for a long while.
Hard to find workers for very poorly paid jobs in one of the World's most expensive cities shocker!

Next we'll be told it's a (un)skills shortage.

The rising tide's not floating all boats - it never does.

I don't buy that HB doesn't increase rents. No matter what the research says. If HB was cancelled tomorrow there would be a lot of out of pocket landlords rushing to sell. The landlords have to cover their mortgages thus high rents. I wonder if this cut in tax credits will ultimately mean lower house prices. And the myth that only the poor receive tax credits. Quite well paid people receive them.

"No matter what the research says."

Ha,ha. That;s like saying, I believe the world is flat, despite what the research says.

Keep your predjudices then, your not clever enough to argue with.

At this stage it's clear there's no talking to grazia and similar. They're determined that anyone who can't completely pay their own way are to blame for their own circumstances. It's a truly disgusting, selfish attitude to have and I am thankful I have nobody in my life (even the few tory voters I know) like that.

I actually hope that people like that aren't ever in dire circumstances because frankly they wouldn't cope.

But when people like that are in dire circumstances are in situations that are not of their own making they do stand and ask for help.

Point in case being all the people who called for government help following the floods, right in the tory heartlands they want help for a situation not of their own making. But would mock anyone else that need it.

Personal responsibility preachers can only do so if they live off grid and don't beneift at all from living here. If you do you nullify your own argument before you start.

"Personal responsibility preachers can only do so if they live off grid and don't beneift at all from living here. If you do you nullify your own argument before you start." Agreed.

And yes they're the ones that shout loudest when they don't get the help they think they're entitled to (eg people buying a house on a known and we'll publicised flood plain and who also don't get adequate insurance/complain they can't get insurance).

Baconyum

You're right - and it's a shame because I'd love to hear from someone who isn't just parroting Tory propaganda about why they seem to believe a whole heap of stuff in the face of all evidence to the contrary - (although I think we may just have heard the answer).

I understand the folk who (presumably in private) say they are Tories because they are wealthy and privileged and don't wish the State to take a penny more from them than necessary. I can see why the'd think like that.

The bit I don't get is the people saying we should all (i.e. all of us wage slaves and people who can't work) tighten our belts to save banks and their bonuses, and so we can cut inheritance tax when so very few people actually pay inheritance tax. It seems to me many of these people think they are the same as the people in the Cabinet - or have some misguided view that they will wake up one day to find they are Alan Sugar. These are the Tory supporters I find hard to understand, the ones done down by Tory policies who seem to want to say "shaft us some more! We're scum, we deserve it!"

It is a good point Grazia makes though, that full time working parents should not have to support those who simply choose to work fewer hours. Since having my children I have always worked part-time but have never expected anyone else to pay for that. DH and I worked out what we could afford and lived within our means.

I agree with those saying the system should be a safety net for those who are genuinely unemployed, carers, ill, etc and it should provide for their needs properly but it should not be a lifestyle choice to enable people to have a more leisurely life or to dabble in hobbies under the guide of unprofitable businesses.

And yes they're the ones that shout loudest when they don't get the help they think they're entitled to (eg people buying a house on a known and we'll publicised flood plain and who also don't get adequate insurance/complain they can't get insurance).

The Lloyd's Names would be another great example of this - thrilled until the cheques stopped coming.

YY longtimelurker Most of them were for privatisation. Until they expereienced it firsthand when the floods and power cuts came. One of the people affected by the Winter 2013 power cuts was Piers Morgans elderly mother. He was having a good old go at UK Power Networks on Twitter at the time.

" working parents should not have to support those who simply choose to work fewer hours."

So should the children of those parents pay less tax in future so that they don't have to support the full time working parents in their retirement? What you pay in NI does no where near pay for the benefits you get in retirement.

Should people under a certain age pay less because their retirement will start later and most likely have lower benefits than those currently?

Its not a pay in get out system.

Oh and the fiddle with tax credits and SE people was a tory one introduced after 2010 so they could manipulate the unemployment statistics.

There is a case that some people shouldn't be claiming, but the reasons given for this need of deficit reduction and rebalancing the economy are erroneous. An ideological move by the most duplicitous and ideologcial government we've had in decades.

It is a good point Grazia makes though, that full time working parents should not have to support those who simply choose to work fewer hours.

No it isn't. There will always be examples like this in a society that doesn't let people starve - one person's "deserving" is another one's "scrounger". If I tried to tailor my contributions to what I think it's fair and reasonable to spend my tax on, believe me, it would be a lot different, but that's not how it works. I've have read heaps about how people are "gaming" the tax credit system - not much actual evidence.

I could argue that if taking more than 40% of tax off people stops them bothering to work, then marginal taxation/benefit rates of closer to 100% at the lower end are insanity - but no-one seems to think it's a legitimate disincentive when you're at the bottom of the pile.