AIBU to tell you it is not illegal to take your child out of school to go on holiday

[Pseudonym99]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-34543101

I've been a teacher; still work j teaching now.

As a child I always had one - two weeks out of school for a holiday. Dads factory shut down was term time and that is when he was able to have a holiday. So we did too. We didn't in exam years but rest we did.

We all were fine. We caught up, we did well educationally.

We've never taken Dd out for a holiday - as I work in a school and can't miss days obviously.

However I truly don't think a primary school aged child is overly disadvantaged by missing 1-2 weeks of school. So long as you're by missing the first few weeks of a year, and not hitting exam times - well, most stuff can be caught up on by pupils with parents helping. Don't expect schools to provide work and catch up stuff, but ask what is being covered and most teachers will let you know ime.
And nothing is only done once - seriously.

Yes, many holidays are just sitting on a beach or theme parks or whatever. But that time is not just about the destination. It's so much more. A time when the whole family are together, sharing relaxing time without the restraints of work, housework, school, etc. People are often more relaxed and in a different frame of mind on holiday, and children benefit from that type of time with parents. I do believe that people of all ages benefit from time away together, as a family, away from the home. I know not everyone can do it - but where they can't it's good for them.

And whilst prices are so vastly different in term time compared to school holiday time - then people will always be swayed by that too. And who can blame them?! When you can save over £1000 on a weeks holiday it is often the case that it is then or not at all.

And obviously the choice of choosing a different type of education is not available to everyone. Home schooling is not a valid choice for many people - people have to work to earn money to start with, and can't just leave their children home alone!

And a U.K. Holiday in school holidays can be very expensive.

Despite having term time holidays every year as a child I never once went abroad. All in the uk.

And yes, some were camping - in term time, in U.K.

It's not always about having fancy holidays abroad.

From what I can see of this the answer is simple.

Parents can take their children out as often as they want But they then pay for tutors to teach their children what they missed in school. The tutors would work outside of the normal school hours.

then you abide by the rules. End of.

again, we know the rules. what we are doing is questioning them. it seems unnecessary (no, I take that back. It is unnecessary) to have draconian rules to maintain the same quality of state education. It's just a huge unnecessary burden on families. With literally a stroke of the pen, the government can make the lives of many families (and businesses) much nicer.

In fact, it seems that nobody wants this, yet it persists.

Good post backinthebox.

Haven't read the ft but I have read some of the arguments from all sides.
I feel that as long as common sense is applied then there shouldn't be a problem in a child spending quality time with family that is just as Important as their education and I don't think that there is a parent or grandparent here who doesn't value education.

Children are learning constantly. They are like little sponges. They just don't learn between 9-3 . For some children they may learn better out of school if they are following up on a hobby. Not every child performs well in a pressure cooker.

What we want for our children is well rounded, kind, thoughtful individuals and that to me is the crux of the matter, we want to raise individuals one size does not fit all.

I think it's important to have a flexible approach to children having time off with their family as long as they aren't doing it constantly.

My son had to take a full term off school after he was bitten by a Rottweiler . Although he was well enough to come back to school the head didn't want him in school on his crutches in case he got knocked over so we put him in a small private school of about 20 pupils. Yes, it disrupted his education but he still got an education. Children can have their education disrupted for all sorts of reasons. It happens .

I've just asked my grandson what happened at school when his classmates went on a trip to Disneyland Paris and he said that important work was delayed until they got back.

It seems important to me to have an attitude of give and take.

again, we know the rules. what we are doing is questioning them.

The OP was about a parent who refused to accept the consequences of his choice to break the rules.
He wasn't questioning them, he broke them.

There are better ways to question the law than by breaking it. Especially when that leads to expense to the public purse and doesn't lead to case law or precedent that changes the rules.

There are better ways to question the law than by breaking it. Especially when that leads to expense to the public purse and doesn't lead to case law or precedent that changes the rules.

parents aren't lawyers. They are just parents trying to have a good family life, and the government is getting in the way of that. breaking the law is the short term solution.

Nice post Hulababy.

We took 10 family members ( 6 of them school age children...17 to 5 years ) to our wedding in the canary islands in the third week of September. In all there was 16 of us staying in the same hotel as we were joined by extended family from Wales too.

This was something that will never happen again but it was just fantastic.

The benefits to them all is just too much to go Into here but they had the most amazing experiences and created fabulous memories that will last a lifetime.

Having the sun on their little bodies for starters after the miserable summer we had here had such health benefits. They all looked so well ( and learning how tobe careful in such strong sunshine was really useful...for some adults as well). For all of them their confidence in water has increased and most of them are swimming much more strongly. Taking children swimming in the uk as a family has got so expensive and schools don't offer it as much as they used to do.

Our lovely wedding ceremony on the beach in the sunshine...so different from most uk weddings.

Building strong family bonds. My son works ridiculously, stupid long hours he doesn't get much quality time with his own family let alone me or his sister's family.

Two of the older children having the independence of their own bedroom and being very sensible in it as well.

Trying different foods at the extensive evening buffet. Meeting my Russian, Swedish and spanish friends. The eagle, snake and parrot shows which were part of the hotels entertainment. Practising a bit of Spanish . Using euros.

Each child will have its own little snapshot of a truly memorable experience and it's still part of their 'education'.

There are better ways to question the law than by breaking it. Especially when that leads to expense to the public purse and doesn't lead to case law or precedent that changes the rules.

any examples?

any examples?

yes. People aren't going to mount an expensive legal challenge to get cheaper holidays.

parents aren't lawyers. They are just parents trying to have a good family life, and the government is getting in the way of that. breaking the law is the short term solution.

Parents are citizens. If they break the law, they can expect consequences. They don't need to be lawyers to know that.

If parents want to question the law, then there are campaigns and pressure groups they can support. Cheaper and less time consuming than the action the Parent in the OP took. Fortunately, most parents do not have the resources to refuse to accept the consequence of the choice. (Or to holiday with a family of 15 in Florida! )

Our head authorised the holiday during term time for DS and DD1 last year and the year before (DD2 is not at school yet).

All this if you dont like the rules then dont use the system is shite. I can't afford private school and certainly not up to home schooling so what else is there? Most people dont have a lot of choice and have to use the system.

Im taking them out again this year (DS is in year 6 so will be most likely be the last time - and its after SATS Ive checked) and TBH I really dont care. The world wont end. Well it might, but I very much doubt it will be because Ive taken my children out for a week to go to France at a cheaper time which I booked as soon as they flights became available through a budget airline.

Yes, Dowser, that's exactly how I feel about this.

Education isn't, and shouldn't be, just about what is taught in schools. Education should be broad and not solely about academia.

As ex-expats my children have experienced two different educational systems and missed years and years of the English curriculum and yet they have fitted in fine and are achieving at the top end of their classes. What they have gained through travel has been far greater educationally than anything lost. I know that our experiences are different to a weeks holiday but I think the same reasoning applies.

I would happily take my children out of school during term time if i weren't a teacher myself and so didn't have to be at work.

I always shake my head reading these threads. I have one home educated child and one in mainstream school.

My HE child has autism, high functioning and academically well above average. However my local authority were unable to offer a suitable place for him. It was fine for him to be out of school for terms and terms while everyone pondered his future. No one was worried about his educational attainment. They were a bit worried about attendance figures though. My dd was also out of school for almost half a term while we waited for a suitable place to come up - Year 1. I was reassured in the strongest possible terms that I didn't need to worry because "at that age they just slot right back in."

It's nice that all some of you have to seethe and make up catastrophic scenarios about are the parents who take their children out for the odd fortnight on the beach and how that will impact so terribly on the school and your poor child. I always wonder how you'd manage if you actually had to deal with a real problem and no school in your borough could/would offer your child a place? You may be surprised at how unconcerned the LA are when the school has a nice, neat authorised absence code use to explain a child's absence.

nicki Do you think your DCs would have made more rapid progress and be higher achieving if they hadnt had those gaps in their education?

I actually agree that a couple of weeks here and there isn't the end of the world because there's more to life than academic achievement. Even if studies show that annual absence does result in lower GCSE outcomes, so what?

The problem for the state is that parents are holding schools and colleges to account for their DCs attainment (in some cases even taking legal action for compensation), while at the same time demanding the flexibility to remove their DCs from school when they want. If colleges are being sued by parents because 'little johnny' didn't get the predicted results, then it's reasonable to have expected little Johnny to attend.

If parents want their DCs to achieve their potential, then the DCs have to be in school in order for the educators to maximise the chance of that happening.

YY nicky.

And all these demands if your child is to access their basic human right to an adequate education you must be prepared to accept any imbecility the school, LA or govt come up with simply won't do. Even less so the pretence that parents who want to be able to take their children out can choose other schools that will happily allow this. I mean, there are loads of families who get no option at all, and even those who do are typically not picking between a school that allows term time absences and one that doesn't.

But I'd be quite happy to go with boneyback's solution actually.

" Do you think your DCs would have made more rapid progress and be higher achieving if they hadnt had those gaps in their education?"

South no I don't. My ds was making NO progress at all in school, everything he learned, he learned/is learning at home.

My dd is/was "exceeding" in every area (they've changed how they assess now) apart from literacy; because she too has ASD and was struggling with imaginative writing. It's hard to see how she could be achieving more.....

I do not argue that sustained, regular absence will not make a difference to attainment, of course it will, that's just common sense. My argument is with the accusatory and doom and gloom stance taken on MN whenever anyone considers taking the odd day once a term or even a fortnight once a year. It isn't a big deal, it just isn't. The scenario described in my last post is and no education professional involved seemed to care less about that when it was all going on. It was played down if anything. In fact I have never seen the urgency regarding term time holidays in RL that I see on here and I know loads of teachers.

My DM was a teacher. She said it was always the kids who could least afford to be off that were taken out during term time.

Are most people talking about primary aged children here? Because at secondary school missing a week makes a huge difference.

It is totally irrelevant whether you take your child to a themepark or a sick granny, whether you sunbath in Spain or camp in Wales. The elephant in the room is that government is chewing away YOUR rights and freedoms. Making holidays a CRIME should be an alarm bell to every citizen. Really... Yet so many are very happy with "roolz is roolz" type of mentality.

Another problem, so many people view school not as a place of education, but as a free daycare that the state must provide, then whinge about striking teachers or that even shortest holidays are too long. Talk about entitlement...

nicki I'll see if I can find a reference to the research that is often quoted by the Education Professionals the area that the article in the OP relates to.

The research in question concludes that a fortnight off a year throughout a child's schooling results in a grade lower at GCSE than would otherwise have been the case.

Two weeks a year throughout a child's schooling equates to two whole terms missed, btw.

I don't know that one or two weeks missed per year have that much of an effect.
I remember I lost at least one week per year due to illness, and DS probably misses one to two, although spread over the year. Not sure it has affected us so far in terms of grades.
I think the main thing is whether parents are actually concerned about what was missed at school and compensate for what was missed or just expect teachers to do it for them, which is always difficult to accomplish without affecting the rest of the class.

And while education is more than school, you can certainly educate your child in a broader perspective outside of school hours, and during weekends and school holidays.
It's something you do throughout the year, not for a two week holiday.
And to be honest, if you work hard during the year and don't have family time, then you may need to address your priorities. It's not a one or two week family holiday that will bring you close to your children.

But children who are taken out are still going to get ill so that two weeks could becomes 3 or 4 weeks when you add on unavoidable illnesses. It all counts.

Here's some links to research that document the correlation between absence and attainment:

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/412638/The_link_between_absence_and_attainment_at_KS2_and_KS4.pdf

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/180772/DFE-00036-2012_improving_attendance_at_school.pdf

webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20091003171047/http:/www.teachernet.gov.uk/wholeschool/behaviour/attendance/sweeps/

webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20110809101133/nsonline.org.uk/node/98020