AIBU to tell you it is not illegal to take your child out of school to go on holiday

[Pseudonym99]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-34543101

I agree Nicki there are far greater crimes happening in education than a few kids missing school occasionally. I really don't get this pious attitude on MN.

I've seen that research already thanks and discussed it with a fair few teachers so you don't need to bother thanks south . Others on the thread might find it useful though.

All those links end with "gov.uk"

That's my entire point shebird but no one ever seems to want to address that when I mention it on here.

Bunbaker next year - year 5, will be the last time I take dd out in term time. I have done it three times, so altogether will be 8 weeks out of her school career. I wouldn't do it after primary school age.

there are far greater crimes happening in education than a few kids missing school occasionally.

I'm sure there are, but the thread is about whether it's ok to take kids out of school for holidays or not.
Surely it's ok to discuss that. :)

I don't know that one or two weeks missed per year have that much of an effect.

The problem is, the research says it does. If we argue that government policy is based on flawed research, where do we stop? What other legislation is based on research that someone, somewhere, doesn't agree with?

The smoking ban in cars with DCs, for instance; based on research that passive smoking can be harmful. But, plenty of children grew up with parents who smoked and don't have health problems, and lots of parents still WANT to smoke in cars, so they say the research much be flawed and the government are being heavy handed and controlling.

What about speeding? Research shows that higher speed kills. Speed limits have to put in place to protect lives. But I want to drive faster in built up areas, so I don't accept that the research is correct.

If there is independent evidence that something is detrimental, and parents don't take steps to protect their DCs, then the government has a responsilbity to legislate, doesn't it? Or, should society be left to screw up the next generation, unregulated in any way?

And you missed the rest of my post mentioning that the attitudes of the parents probably have more of an influence.

I'm actually against taking children out of school for holidays. Just pointing out that missing per se may not be the main problem.

Parents who take their kids out of school aren't teachers, though. So, no matter how committed they are to ensuring their DC catches up, it won't fully compensate for the missed school time.

Even being supported to "catch up" by a teacher is less effective than actually being in the class at the time - so how on earth could parents be expected to?

Of course it is of course it's ok to discuss that Lweji I am offering the perspective that many LA's don't care about or attach as much importance to it as many of the posters on MN do and are in fact happy to neglect entire educations of some of the children they're responsible for. For all the children you know that are thriving happily in school there are almost the same amount who are not and no one cares. Not even the authorities charged with ensuring they're educated.

It's very hard to take the hysteria surrounding term time holidays seriously when you know this is happening. I personally know over thirty children and their families in my area who are experiencing this.

south honestly do you really believe that you have to be a teacher to successfully catch your child up on the 30 hours (and that is a generous estimate) of formal education that they missed over a two week period? I'm sorry find that view laughable.

Of course if kids regularly miss school it will impact on their education - I don't need stats to tell me this. I resent this scaremongering stuff being shoved in my face by the government. They are constantly trying undermine my job as a parent and make me fearful that every move I make impacts on my children. I

Please can we have some stats from the government on the impact of poor teaching, regular teacher absence, substitute teachers, teachers leaving half way through the school year, constantly changing educational fads, disruptive pupils etc. I am very confident that having been through most of the above with DD1, that these events had a far greater impact on her education than the 2 days she missed to attend a family wedding.

It's hardly hysteria. Other than parents who insist on taking their children on holiday and go to court to fight a fine. In a class of 20, if all insist on taking two weeks off, I can imagine how disruptive it is for the teacher and for the class, if they are expected to help those children catch up.
I'm not surprised that fines are being used if parents routinely think it's ok for their children to miss school for weeks at a time.
I'd rather use hysteria for the perception that holidays abroad or at holiday cattle camps in the UK are that fundamental either for family life or children's education in general.

The idea that teachers alone can teach is bizarre.

I don't expect anyone but myself to catch my child up. I ask what they're covering and do it myself. I don't ask for work but purchase work books myself. We actually returned from holiday two weeks ago and dd's teacher told me it was as though she hadn't been away. We also complete all homework (it's set for each week on a half termly basis). See I just do not fit that perception of feckless uncaring parents do I? And I don't know anyone that does.

The hysteria for me lies in the assumption that every parent wants to take their child out of school for 2 weeks every year. Even before the fines were introduced it was a rare occurance at my DCs school.

Exactly shebird. I take mine out because they're both autistic and holidays when it's crowded and hot have proven to be disastrous.

It's nice that all some of you have to seethe and make up catastrophic scenarios about are the parents who take their children out for the odd fortnight on the beach and how that will impact so terribly on the school and your poor child. I always wonder how you'd manage if you actually had to deal with a real problem and no school in your borough could/would offer your child a place? You may be surprised at how unconcerned the LA are when the school has a nice, neat authorised absence code use to explain a child's absence.

Those scenarios are happening a LOT now in London and the South East. It's epidemic. It does seem a nonsense to have such draconian measures in respect of holiday absence whilst simultaneously the State is denying an education to large numbers of children. It's an inherent contradiction.

There are so many unknown and uncontrolled factors involved in these gov studies that they are meaningless.

What do you suggest amarmai? That the Govenrment ignores studies that have factors such as those?

That would be fine, except that when "little Johnny" fails, then parents (and their barristers) call on equally unreliable studies to prove that the school/college has failed, and secure compensation.

Schools and colleges are being legally blamed for students not achieving as expected. That is happening, increasingly, across the country.
If courts are willing to use unreliable research to draw conclusions about what a school should have achieved, why can't the Government use similarly unreliable evidence to make policy that reduces the chance of the state being held accountable?

I'd be interested in the circumstances of those "little Johnny" cases you keep referring to. Any links for those?

I've been told by a barrister friend who specialises in cases such as my ds that I would have a very strong case against our LA on behalf of my ds if I decided to pursue one as they've failed him entirely and it's well documented. I'd like to see if any of the cases you refer to hold any similarities.