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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Or is this a little strange for a "separated" couple

152 replies

FrancescaP · 15/10/2015 17:43

Top and bottom, my cousin who I don't really see often and aren't particularly close with, well I think she and her ex partner have some dodgy set up going on. So i'd just like some perspective as maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, but to me it's a little weird.

Anyway, her and her ex partner have four children, they own there own house and they seemed very happy and have been together for years. A couple of years back she announced that her and her partner were splitting up. Instead of one of them staying in the family home and one moving out they both moved out. She got to the top of the council list and got a house very quickly and he moved back home to his father's house despite being in full time work and wing able to afford a place of his own, and they got a tenant in to rent their home. This was about two years ago and for a separated couple they still live like they are very much together and are even going on holiday together to Spain at half term, now all I want to know is this usual for couples who separate?

The thing is my cousin doesn't work so gets full benefits and I fear if the counci/Dwp/hmrc found out about their unique set up then they'd be in a lot of trouble. Don't get me wrong it's great if parents can stay amicable for the sake of the children but my cousin has her ex round almost daily, he stays over some nights, they still go on days out etc and I just think it's a little odd, AIBU here?

OP posts:
ItsJustaUsername · 16/10/2015 11:07

Unless I am mistaken I swear I read this exact same thread about 6 months ago Hmm.

CrapBag · 16/10/2015 11:11

You won't win here OP. Benefit fraud on MN seems to be no big deal and we should all basically keep our noses out.

I am 99% sure my cousin is doing it (he is claiming, single parent, child at school, refuses to get a job that suits him exactly, which conveniently they don't, he gets sent on course after course that is paid for and never results in work and I've been told he works cash in hand), unfortunately I don't know enough details to report him else I would.

I claim benefits, legitimately. I have to fight for mine and jump through hoops to prove I am too ill to work and that I am entitled to what I do claim (which isn't a huge amount, DH works and we dont spend all the time, cannot afford new cars and foreign holidays, The Sun holidays are about our limit). It's people who commit benefit fraud that make it extremely difficult for people like me who claim legitimately. It makes me angry.

It does sound like there is something dodgy going on. If she is stupid enough to brag about it, then that's her fault and it could be inevitable that someone would report her. Honestly? I would do it. If it's all legit then she has nothing to worry about. Bear in mind they could be 'not together enough' for it to count. I think he is allowed to stay over 3 or 4 times a week and she would still be counted as a single parent.

Number3cometome · 16/10/2015 11:17

OP I wouldn't worry about it.

Had a neighbour who done something very similar, her and her 'ex' husband didn't live together, except they were together and everyone knew it.

Either someone got annoyed and informed on them, or they didn't cover their tracks properly.

The benefits people used a flat opposite to spy on them for months, gathered evidence and brought a case against her for nearly £100k of benefit fraud over years. Last thing I heard she had her kids taken away from her and was facing jail time.

I think partners are only allowed to stay over one night a week, any more and they are classed as living with you.

They can pretend all day long, but they will eventually get caught.

HairOnMyChinnyChinChin · 16/10/2015 11:21

I know a lady who does this.

She's mid 60's, a retired social worker but not on a huge pension, her house was mortgaged to the hilt and she couldnt pay it.

She rents out her house which covers the mortgage and also recieves full housing benefit for a house which she rents (( carer for her grandson ))

Can't say I agree with it but it's perfectly legal apparently.

hairbrushbedhair · 16/10/2015 11:34

I'm pretty sure is 3 nights someone can stay over

And they can't have post delivered

Or leave belongings in your property

And must be registered at another address and paying rent to another address

I've checked several times with the council since DH and I Seperated and given his new address etc to them

They keep sending him letters to my address so whilst I do hand them over to him I keep phoning to remind them of his new address

We were both residents of the property prior to splitting though and he now rents a room from a family member...

BeautifulLiar · 16/10/2015 11:51

Can you really holiday with an ex? Genuine question.

DH and I split up in April; he moved back in with his mum and dad. However we are trying to get back on track, not least because I am pregnant.

We had promised the kids we'd go on a Haven holiday next summer, but I'm too scared to book in case we will be classed as living together?! Which we most certainly don't. I mean he got a taxi back to his at 10pm last night because he had work this morning and all his clothes are at his. I'm just scared of putting a foot wrong.

hairbrushbedhair · 16/10/2015 12:41

Yes you can but I would call the council to cover yourself and double check.

I don't live with my mum though and Iv holidayed with her, not sure why holidaying with someone would mean you live with them

Iv always been upfront to the council that we plan to get back together but have fallen on difficult times

BeautifulLiar · 16/10/2015 12:45

Thanks hairbrush. There's an obscure list somewhere on the internet from the DWP and it's all the things they look at to determine whether someone is in a relationship. Going on holiday as a family is one of them.

RhodaBull · 16/10/2015 12:57

If you're going on holiday as a family - and you have children and another on the way and the partner stays over - then you are a family. Pretending to be single and convincing your dcs that you are single - is that really a good way of going on?

It is a sad state of affairs when a dh is a liability that must be hidden at all - literally - costs.

hairbrushbedhair · 16/10/2015 13:00

I'd definitely call and double check then but plenty of people holiday and are in relationships together without living together

I would find it quite easy to prove DH doesn't live here despite staying over sometimes and a holiday (not abroad we couldn't afford it) as I live in a block of flats with cctv outside my door.

I don't recommend this way of life, but it's necessary in some circumstances to take a break from living together. Wish people could just realise things aren't always black and white

BeautifulLiar · 16/10/2015 13:01

Oh didn't realise if you birthed someone's baby you were a family. Wish my son's sperm donor read that memo. Also I never said he stayed over - he got a taxi home.

BeautifulLiar · 16/10/2015 13:02

Thanks hairbrush.

hairbrushbedhair · 16/10/2015 13:05

Ffs.

I'm not trying to convince anybody that I'm single or wanting to hide DH

I'm living as a single parent. However I am Seperated rather than divorced and trying very hard for all our sakes to reconcile our marriage to a point we can live together again.

BeautifulLiar · 16/10/2015 13:10

... which is surely better than staying on benefits even longer?

Can't win on here sometimes.

hairbrushbedhair · 16/10/2015 13:16

... which is surely better than staying on benefits even longer?
**
Can't win on here sometimes

You really can't!

SurlyCue · 16/10/2015 13:18

You can holiday with whoever you like. I did with my sister a few years ago, my cousin before that. It doesnt mean either of them were my partner or supporting me Hmm

Wrt the "3 nights" thing. A MNer who worked in benefits in some capacity has posted on several threads before to clarify that there is no number of nights. Decisions about whether two people are a couple or not are made on a variety of thing including who is paying the bills.

BeautifulLiar · 16/10/2015 13:19

Surly, the "three night rule" myth really annoys me!

SurlyCue · 16/10/2015 13:22

Yes i hear it in RL too. Of course the benefits crew arent eager to clarify it.

LoveAndHate · 16/10/2015 13:23

She's clearly cheating the system but if her tenant is a Syrian refugee it cancels out the thievery.

GreatFuckability · 16/10/2015 13:28

I worked for the dwp for more years than I care to remember. This 3 nights thing is a total myth. I also holiday'd with my ex WHILE I worked there, quite openly. No one cared.

hairbrushbedhair · 16/10/2015 13:28

I would guess the 3 nights thing was birthed out of the fact that there are 7 nights in a week and if you stay 4 you are there more than you are anywhere else so have "lived" there for that week?

It's a myth definitely being given out as fact by my council

BeautifulLiar · 16/10/2015 13:29

I mean surely if this "three night rule" was all you had to consider then anyone with a DP in army barracks etc could claim as a single parent...

LeaveMyWingsBehindMe · 16/10/2015 13:34

I am always amazed by threads like this, where someone somewhere is clearly taking the piss, or cynically exploiting loopholes in a flawed system and the OP is told she has no right to feel annoyed about it.

I'll bet my bottom dollar there are at least a hundred people who have posted on MN this month who are claiming benefits as a single mother when they are still very much in a relationship with their child's father, because it is financially beneficial for them to live officially as a non-cohabiting couple. they don't even have to pretend they are not a couple, just that they don't live together. Which is totally and utterly ridiculous.

I'll also bet that there are couples who deliberately go through the motions of splitting up, because they know they will be better off overall as a supposedly single mother and her ex, rather than being expected to support their family as a two parent household.

Yes the fault is in the system and you can't blame people who are not on fantastic salaries to work it for all it's worth, but you also can't with a straight face act surprised or indignant when people say they are frustrated with it.

Given what unlimited just said, there is theoretical scope for any couple wanting to make some money to fabricate a separation, rent out their house claiming they are unable to sell it for whatever reason, for the woman to get social housing/HB for renting and claim all the other benefits associated with being a single parent and for the man to move in (at least officially) with his parents, redirect his post etc, while still spending several days a week (or even every single day, so long as he doesn't stay for too many overnights) with his not-so-ex wife and children.

Meanwhile, they can massively slash their outgoings while still maintaining a foothold on the property ladder and benefitting from capital gains.

It's a brilliant wheeze when you think about it.

StrawberryTeaLeaf · 16/10/2015 13:37

I am always amazed by threads like this, where someone somewhere is clearly taking the piss, or cynically exploiting loopholes in a flawed system and the OP is told she has no right to feel annoyed about it.

But she wasn't annoyed. Not initially. She was desperately concerned that her cousin would get in trouble.

Then the mask slipped.

BeautifulLiar · 16/10/2015 13:37

I dunno, it's pretty depressing when H goes back to his mum's. I wish we'd never had to split up.