daughter really upset about forthcoming school trip

[Dieu]

Hello everyone
My 14 year old daughter goes to a private girls' school, and is in short a really nice kid. She doesn't have a nasty bone, and does well to navigate some of the bitching that goes on at her school.
The school also has a separate boys' high, and occasionally the two come together for trips.
There is going to be a week long residential trip next year, and I have just broken the news to her that it's compulsory (and not optional, as she originally thought).
Her reaction was pretty bad, and she's really upset. She is terrified of being put together with the boys for that long. To be fair, as with any school (and gender!) some of them can be extremely nasty and their attitudes towards girls just awful. I think my daughter has seen a lot of it on social media, and it's the lack of escape on the trip that's worrying her.
Apparently the showers there are shared, and they wear their swimming costumes in them. SOME boys will think nothing of commenting on the girls' body shapes, etc. Of course my daughter is beautiful in my eyes, and in her own, but she knows herself that as someone who is tallest, ginger, not the skinniest etc, she could be a target for them.
She's normally a very reasonable, lovely girl but her reaction has worried me. Of course I tried to say all the right things, that the thought will be worse than the reality, that the boys probably won't care, that she shouldn't care etc. It sounded hollow though, and like I was trying to minimise her distress.
I'm normally a 'chin up and get on with it' parent and try not to pander to too much nonsense, but she's really scared and upset. She says she won't eat in front of the boys, so as not to attract nasty comments from them.
Gaaah. How would you prepare your teenage daughter for this trip?
Thanks.

An 80 year old Bristolian man calls another man "my lover" in a strong West Country accent. Possibly. Although I suspect that this is one of those things that actually stopped happening in about 1945 but lives on in folk memory- like Yorkshire and Liverpudlian men calling each other "pet" and "love".

How is this anything at all to do with men using sexist, demeaning and infantilising language and behaviours to women in other, non Last of the Summer Wine and Cider With Rosie contexts?

Not to mention the almost universal assumption on this thread that, if the OP's daughter has any concerns about the the behaviour of the boys on this trip that it is because there is something wrong with her attitudes and that she should modify her behaviour. The idea that the boys might need to change in some way is barely even considered.

If you are in Cornwall you get called 'my lover' by anyone- it is a general term for men and women. It seemed odd at first but you just get used to it like pet, love etc.
It certainly didn't stop happening in 1945!

Santyclaus, I don't think that is the case at all, they just don't want to hang out with mostly boys at this age. Apparently that all changes in the higher years.

To help your dd prior to the trip, could she take part in an activity / join a club outside of school which is both girls and boys. Scouts or a youth club maybe. I think if she was more used to socialising with boys she wouldn't be as concerned.

My dd goes to a mixed school and her group of friends is both boys and girls. She even attends MMA fitness classes outside of school which tend to be about 90% boys, sometimes she is the only girl in the class and doesn't think anything of it.

She hasn't really had any problems at school but any issues she has had with name calling, etc has largely been from other girls so I doubt the fears your dd has will actually be the reality.

Sharing showers seems odd, but if they wear swimming costumes and are supervised by teachers is it really any different to going swimming together. I would clarify this with the school because I suspect your dd may have been given the wrong information and is worrying over something that will not even happen.

DDs go to a mixed school. They had the option of single sex. A lot of their friends are boys. Parties and group sleepovers are generally at least 50% boys. Neither boys or girls view the other as exotic or 'other'. I think it is the lack of familiarity / practice being around the opposite sex that is the problem here. For both OPs DD and the boys she is (understandably) anxious about.

Sleepovers with boys. [clutches pearls]

I just wouldn't send her. It may be "compulsory" but what are they going to do about it? These situations do not prepare children for real life, they erode their confidence to the degree that they struggle with real life.

MarianneSolong thank you for sharing and I am sorry for all that has happened to you.

I would always say I have not had terrible experiences in life but I have had unwanted attention which I have found somewhat threatening, and this was at the age of 16, 18, again in my 20s. A male friend of the person who i was babysitting for, a customer who wanted to touch my bum all the time (when I worked in a restaurant), even in front of his wife, men who felt they could physically pick me up and take me to the dance floor if I did not want to dance with them or who tried to stop me leaving the bus because they wanted to talk to me.

I think if young women feel uncomfortable around young men we should allow them to feel that, while gently exploring if anything has happened, if they are picking up on subtle or unsubtle sexist cues in the school and suggest how to deal with that. I think as parents and older women for young girls we should encourage a sense of ability and empowerment for young women and not simply expect them to like boys or being around them - especially if this is relatively new for girls (and I rarely mixed with boys pre-16 despite being in a mixed school).

I do think it is helpful for young women to get their 'radar' tuned so they can work out which men are dangerous or worrying or which situations are to be avoided. Being timid or nervous of young men, boys or men, all the time is going to be exhausting for her and maybe counter productive.

Dieu I really hope you are working through these things with your dd. Aim to empower her and value her feelings, I am sure you do, but it is easy to want to direct our kids when they are not going in the direction we want them to! Sometimes we can do that in a more subtle way.

Good luck.

DH (49) has been called 'love' many times by older men.I didn't realise he was gay-bait!!

I've said that in my current work situation male service users will often address me in a way that I don't wish to be addressed. It's not friendliness - I have no problem with that - it's a lack of respect.

possibly, but it is not sexual harassment!

brioche- obviously you are stating your own experience. But I have to assure you that it is not at all common for men to address each other as "love" anywhere in the country. Your DP's experience is very uncommon indeed.

And using terms of endearment inappropriately could certainly be classed as sexual harassment, particularly if they have been asked not to. Indeed I find it hard to believe that there is a man alive who doesn't know by now that they shouldn't do it. Men deciding that it's OK to call women "dear"or "sweetheart" in a professional context is belittling and unpleasant.

Men deciding that it's OK to call women "dear"or "sweetheart" in a professional context is belittling and unpleasant.

Yes, but NOT sexual harassment

BertandRussell I have to assure you that it is not at all common for men to address each other as "love" anywhere in the country

Look on any Guide to Yorkshire website such as this and you will see it is common in Yorkshire for men to call other men 'love'

I've just had a look at that App. Sorry, Brioche, I didn't realise you were joking! I do hope not too many foreign students are misled by it- it's a positive minefield, isn't it?

I've just had a look at that App. Sorry, Brioche, I didn't realise you were joking!

I wasn't .

Ah I get it now.You're one of those people who can never admit to being wrong!

Brioche- that app suggests that Yorkshire people go round saying "Eee Bah Gum" and referring to their accent as Tyke. Neither of which I have ever heard except in an ironic context. It also says that "sprog" and "minging" are Yorkshire dialect words. I honestly don't think it's particularly reliable. Which is why I thought you were joking............

Men in yorkshire do not call each other love!

And as for shortening vowels, visit Hull some taaaaaaam and see if you think that's true! The app is comic, but not accurate about actual language as it is spoken!

Yorkshirewoman here. Men in Yorkshire do not call each other "love." Women call men and women "love." Men call women "love." Men do not call men "love."

This is based on 30+ years of experience - not some half-arsed website written by a copywriting knob who gained their knowledge of "Yorkshire-speak" from a teatowel purchased from a gift shop in Skipton.

Phew. Reinforcements!

Interestingly, someone always brings this up when there is a thread where women object to strange men addressing them by endearments.

Not young men but older men definitely do call younger men love
and that is based on 46 years experience, so ner!!

Well, I only have 37 years of yorkshire experience, so perhaps the next nine will include my very first hearing of a man calling another man love. Even if it does, I think the fact I've literally never heard it is probably fairly telling in itself.

I have a heard a lot of women being called love, though.

Older men routinely calling younger men 'love' crikey - some people really will scrape the bottom to make a point. I'd almost believe it if it were the other way around.

How did Yorkshire get a starring role on this thread anyway - is that where the OP's from? If it is indeed the only place where men call men 'love', then surely that proves the point that it's highly unusual (i.e. men don't usually go round calling each other 'love').

The dowager - because the fact that if you wait 46 years in one county in this country, yiu might hear one man call another man love obviously rather changes the landscape as far as our understanding of the kinds of harassment young women often face, of course!