AIBU to keep punishing my 6 year old

[Arrowfanatic]

My daughter is 6, and she still wets herself daily.

She will sit on the sofa and just wee herself, she will sit at school and just wee the carpet. She wees her bed constantly.

This has been an almost daily occurrence since we started potty training when she was almost 3.

She has two younger siblings who are totally dry. She is ruining her bed, we have to buy new bedding constantly as the smell just stops washing out. She refuses pyjama pants, says she's not a baby. When she wees herself in the day time she says she just didn't want to stop what she was doing

It's been 4 years, you name it I've tried it when it comes to solving this. We even see a consultant at the hospital for it, there is no physical problem that may be causing this.

I'm ashamed to say after she wet the duvet we got her yesterday that I told her to go and find somewhere else to live; I'm not proud of it but unless you've been dealing with what I have every day for 4 years and the endless attempts to get it resolved you just can't understand.

I told her today she will be going to bed every day after dinner this week and won't be allowed to go to her after school club.

If I thought she had no control it would be different but she can stay dry when she wants. She'll stay with grandparents in their house and be totally dry. She can be out with us all day and say she needs a wee and hold it till we find one. So its pure lazy behaviour that causes this.

AIBU with punishing though? I honestly don't know what else I can do. I've tried EVERYTHING and believe me when I say everything I mean it. I've seen health visitors, incontinence nurses, reward charts, ignoring, praising, getting her to wash her own stuff, taking away toys, incentives, bribes, shouting, crying, begging, helping me potty training her siblings, explaining that wetting herself is what causes her never ending soreness down "there", I've had family involved to help, the hospital, teachers, we've done stickers, stars. Over 4 years I don't now know where to turn.

non issue correction.

Figure out what is important to her. Link the two.

Try a little timer - set to frequent intervals (say, 15 minutes), every time it goes off, it's time for a wee. She wets in between times, shorten the interval. If it interrupts play/TV whatever, explain that it seems necessary to remind her and you will continue to do so until she can do it herself. Including when her friends come around (this may be the key). No blame, no shouting, but we are doing it this way. And she helps clean up whatever she's damaged by wetting. Natural consequence.

Does she like listening to stories? I could write a little story/visualisation you could read to her at night, when she is relaxed in bed if you like. This can often help

It's a very difficult thing to have to manage for 4 years.
It's interesting that she'll not wet herself at her grandparents but she will at school. At 6 years old the majority of children wouldn't want to do that in front of their class mates.
Does she ever go to the toilet at home?
Is she totally aware of the feeling of needing to go to the toilet every single time? Is it really that she knows she needs to go to the toilet but prefers to deliberately wee on the sofa rather than go to the toilet?
If there's no physical cause for it and she's able to hold it in other situations then, if it were me, I'd start looking into psychological reasons for it. It doesn't mean that she's being abused somewhere (as a pp said) just that this has been the dynamic in your family for such a long time it's just what happens-the wetting the attention after etc.
However I'd put her in pull ups regardless what she says, I wold not be letting her just wee over everything. If she doesn't want to wear them then she'll have to stop doing it.
Has the school spoken to you about this?

I agree with those saying put her in pull ups. I'm not surprised you are at the end of your tether cleaning up after her constantly. It needs to stop, and pull ups will stop it, until she grows out of it. Maybe you could explain to her that they are not just for babies, and lots of adults have similar problems to her and wear them.

She will go to the toilet at home, but other times will leave it to the point she's bursting and that's when she wets herself.

She does it at school and just won't say anything, even the teachers don't realise until I get her home and change her and I can smell it on her.

Abuse no chance. She's always with me, or at school or Rainbows.

I apologised for what I said about not living with me, and we had lots of kisses cuddles before school.

I just get told by professionals that using the toilet all the time isn't in her mental list of "things I must do today" she would rather sit and read a book cover to cover than actually get up. I do send her myself frequently which always results in her throwing a temper.

I completely understand why you're at the end of your tether. Ds has wet himself a few times due to not being bothered to go to the toilet. He lets himself get desperate.

The bed wetting at night does suggest a physical/hormonal problem?

I know you've tried it but making her go for a wee on the hour every hour? Trying to be calm and overcome the tantrum around not going. I've had this with ds and I turn the tv off/take away whatever he's doing until he's gone.

Practically speaking making her wear pull ups and cover sofas and floor with cheap shower curtains.

I just get told by professionals that using the toilet all the time isn't in her mental list of "things I must do today" she would rather sit and read a book cover to cover than actually get up.

Sounds like she is hyperfocusing.

Sounds like you've been wound up and worn out by this situation. (massive sympathies, been there done that over other issues)

As others have said, she needs to be in pullups or similar until she demonstrates that she doesn't need them, and this is consequence not punishment. She can't have a choice about using them at night, and probably needs to know that it is reasonably common for girls and boys her age to still need something at night.

Can you get someone else to "establish the new regime" with her? ie say, we've all had enough, here's the deal, here's the chart, when you are dry then you can try without? But either way, sort out what the rules are going to be, whether it be two days dry or a week of nights or whatever, have a record that you can keep together, and once you've told your daughter about it be ready to stick to it absolutely.

It might be worth saying to her, sorry you have to use pullups until I'm ready to cope with this again. And then get the chart and plans ready when you have time over the next few days.

If she's been properly investigated that is good to hear because it's important things aren't overlooked. If you have ongoing access to the continence nurses can they help you establish a plan that you will be able to cope with - that cuts down the stress on you. Reasonable, for example, to tell your daughter that actually, to start with she can only try without pullups after (say) 3 dry days, and only on a day of the week that YOU can handle the consequences if it doesn't work.

Good luck and very best wishes for breaking the stressful cycle you have all got into!

She sounds extremely advanced and given that, I think (in my unexpert opinion) that she's fighting you for control.

By wetting when she wants to, you have to pay her attention. By refusing to wear a pull up at night, you have to pay her attention. Put her in pull ups and break the cycle.

Because the consultant told you that she finds visiting the toilet a 'boring act', I am wondering if you could make it more interesting, e.g. posters up, her favourite books and toys by toilet. Try rewarding her when she goes by spending time with her straight afterwards, joining in an activity she enjoys. Please don't punish her. You should be proud of her, she sounds lovely, and this is not such a bad thing, although I accept it is very annoying! Also, I used to wait until my daughter fell asleep at night and then go and put a pull up on her (until about 7 years old).

I can imagine just how awful this must be for you. Don't beat yourself up about what you said, it's done and show me someone who hasn't said things they regret in the heat of the moment.

I agree with pull ups at night and her taking more responsibility for cleaning herself and knicks/clothes/bedding up. And repeat, repeat.

Sending much luck.

From the books I have been reading it seems like the best route is always true consequences. In this case it couldn't be simpler...if your DD is getting wet most days then she needs to be back in pull ups most days. She should definitely be in nappies over night if not dry during the day.

Straight forward cause and effect - no punishment element. Just - we can't keep on like this so here are the pull ups. Also no shame - because even though it has been investigated and doesn't look to be either physical or psychological it may still be. Professionals are sometimes wrong!

So just a fact of life...if you can't control your bladder you wear something absorbent - I am sure more than a few adults on this thread are doing the same childbirth sucks

I would get back to the medical professionals, and make them give you better advice or refer you to someone who can. Sometimes you have to repeatedly shout for medical professionals to realise that you need help not just some pat reassurances.

I would suggest you have a routine of she has to go to the toilet every hour, and have an alarm (kitchen timer/phone reminder/whatever) to remind her. At school she needs a care plan which says she is reminded at each breaks she has to go to the toilet before playing. (I would be making a written complaint that they are not noticing that she has wet herself - I can't believe other children haven't noticed.)

There are lots of very bright people with SN, and this sounds like one - even if nothing further is diagnosed. Don't let people fob you off.

I'm not suggesting that abuse is an issue here at all but please never say there is no chance of abuse. That's a very naive and potentially dangerous thing to say about any child.

Putting a bright 6 year old in nappies in the day smacks of psychological abuse to me - it is very inappropriate - though by all means buy some lined pants.

I agree with nappies at night, though. When DS refused (though he was a lot younger) I used to put them on him once he was asleep rather than fight about it at bedtime.

Maybe regular toilet visits need to be imposed? when DS went through a phase of being too absorbed in play to go to the toilet I just used to take him to the loo regularly. No asking, no choice, small reward after.

OP I think you need to reach out for some support for yourself. You sound incredibly stressed/down and resolving the weeing issue may not - by the sounds of it - alleviate that.

You've had lots of good advice re: put her back in pull ups etc. but please speak to a GP about how you are feeling. Do you get much 'me' time? Do you have time to relax and unwind? Please try to work that into your day/week.

Poor you OP.
I was just wondering whether she has a low grade urinary infection? Does she drink enough fluids or does she avoid drinking and thinks that she won't need to go to the loo so often? It could be that when away she drinks more so avoids concentrated urine (which irritates the bladder) , but drinks less at home or school.

mistigri why do you say that? Do you think lacking bladder control is something shameful? I hope not because I would take that very personally indeed.

Also, totally agree with mummytime - I suspect the reason the specialists are not helping is that they are looking for a physical cause when the reason may be elsewhere. For eg I have a friend whose oldest girl has ADHD (she is not especially hyperactive; hers is mainly the inattentive and oppositional type) and she has told me that delayed toilet training can be a symptom of this.

I have an almost 6yo DD with similar issues. She is wet in school every day and most days at home. Not huge puddles but just wet knickers.

Recently dry at night, so I hope there is a light at the end of the tunnel for you. It is a different hormone at night and you just have to wait for it to 'kick in' so no shame at all in pull-ups.

At the clinic, we were able to put it down to:
-she is not emptying her bladder fully when toiletting so going back to a step and stool on the loo for better position
-too embarrassed to ask for toilet at school/fear of being told No
-a bit of laziness

Our continence nurse suggested these strategies:

1. an alarm set for a toilet trip every hour regardless of what she is doing. That way, it's non negotiable.
2. Double wees - go, wait 20 secs and go again
3. More fluids. Give the bladder more practice. (Not milk - which is a food, but anything else).
4. make sure school are aware and support us in these strategies.

I too was completely worn out by it, by having the same conversation with her day after day after day, the washing, the smell of wee everywhere...but I've become a bit benign now. I just say 'right, go and have a wash and get changed, bring the wet things down and put in the washer' and carry on with what I'm doing.

Really, honestly, just do what makes your own life easier for a bit OP, take the pressure off. You haven't failed, you're just both having a breather from letting wetting dominate your lives.

Is there any chance she is constipated?

My daughter wets herself constantly if she is not taking movicol for constipation.

I know you must be beyond frustrated buti think there is something WRONG, I don't believe it's laziness or attention seeking at all, I don't think any child would do it on purpose like that. I am so sorry this is happening, It must be really hard.

IceBeing I don't think it's shameful. But I do think putting a 6 year old in nappies, against her will, during the school day, when schoolmates may find out, is appropriate at all. I think it risks being verg destructive of her self-esteem, which is probably not very high to start with (an intelligent child will know that weeing herself at school is not normal).

do not think

You're really going to do her a lot of damage if you say stuff like that to her, and punish and humiliate her. Yes, YABVU.