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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to put up a fight about this?

122 replies

DaniBubbles · 10/10/2015 11:34

Long story short- after years of putting up with downright nasty behaviour from my parents, things have come to a head.
I am about to cut contact with them completely but my dad has phoned and told me he wants belongings from my house. Most items are rightly his e.g. camping stuff, home videos etc which I have no problem with however there are 2 items which I'm reluctant to return:

A TV (Sony 40" about 8 years old) which he paid for and gifted to me for my first flat which I have then gone on to move to another flat and eventually my house.

An outdoor table and chair set which they gifted to me from my childhood home. My parents live in a flat without a garden which leads me to believe they are just going to bin it out of spite.

Is it worth putting up a fight about this? Or should I just hand it all over and cut contact?

OP posts:

LagunaBubbles · 19/10/2015 14:59

Definitely get legal advice regarding your flat, whilst your parents remain living there you will always have a link to them.

WhatchaMaCalllit · 19/10/2015 15:26

Could you employ a letting agency - a third party independent of you and your parents - to look after the flat on your behalf? Then you could empoy the letting agency to get your parents to sign a tenancy agreement (if they wont sign one for you)?

In relation to the disposable BBQ - was the one they were looking for used or unused? I would have send them back a used one (just because I'm like that and it would have been funny to witness)!

AcrossthePond55 · 19/10/2015 15:35

Well, it's a relief to know that the flat is totally in your name and that you've revoked any release of info clause! Next stop, a solicitor regarding 'regularizing' their tenancy or evicting them. At the very least, you need to be able to gain access to the flat, the way any landlord would. Not that you'd want in, but you never know what may happen.

You say they'd never sign a tenancy, but would you really want them as your tenants? I don't think I would. I'd be afraid that they'd start destroying the place or letting regular maintenance go out of spite.

I also think you need to log the sitting outside your home with the police.

LisaD1 · 19/10/2015 15:39

Personally, I would sell the flat and let them take their poison elsewhere.

HorseyCool · 19/10/2015 16:54

Wow I am surprised that the mortgage company is happy with this set up!
A good solicitor will give you good advice.

Is the mortgage low due to the length of time that you have had the property? i.e. lower than the rental cost of a similar property? Because I am struggling to understand why there are living there tbh.

The situation sounds tense, I would install really good security lights that comes on with movement, then if your parents approach the property they will be lit up.

VimFuego101 · 19/10/2015 17:12

Good idea re: the lights, HorseyCool. Could you rig up a security camera to keep an eye on things? we have a cheap movement triggered webcam which works well, if you don't want to shell out for expensive security equipment. Hopefully just seeing it there should be a deterrent to anyone considering entering.

And yes to logging every incident with the police.

MintyChops · 19/10/2015 17:25

God Dani they sound AWFUL, you poor thing. Definitely speak to a solicitor. I honestly think that if you really are going to follow through with going NC with them, you are going to have to either sell the flat or evict them. Also, keep a log of everything, every ridiculous request, your replies, your Dad sitting outside the house, etc.

PestoSwimissimos · 19/10/2015 17:39

If I were in your position I would get legal advice and evict your parents. Then I would probably sign up with a decent lettings agency and get some new tenants.

RenterNomad · 19/10/2015 18:24

The last thing I want to do is sell out from under them

On the contrary: this is the first thing you should desire!

A breakdown in relations between LL and tenant is a nightmare. Even with my background as a tenant, I say this: "Evict them. Remove all conflicts of interest from your relationship."

Verypissedoffwife · 19/10/2015 18:26

Who's paid for the flat? The way I read it is that parents have made all the repayments and presumably the deposit too? Seems a bit harsh to evict them if they've made all the investment. I do agree they sound horrendous though.

paulapompom · 19/10/2015 18:28

No practical help from me dani, good advice on here. But just to say sorry you are going through this, fwiw nc sounds like a necessity rather than a choice x

AcrossthePond55 · 19/10/2015 19:13

I think others' suggestions re getting a letting agent is something you should consider for right now. Get an agent then send your parents a letter directing them to make future 'rent' payments directly to them and that any communications regarding the flat are to be directed to the agent. I'm not a LL so don't know about the cost involved but it would put a 'layer' between you and them until you can decide what you want to do on a more permanent basis.

RenterNomad · 19/10/2015 20:50

If they made the deposit and wanted it back, they should have protected their investment. (The OP is young, so presumably the parents aren't that old, but there are strict rules about passing assets between the generations - gifts must truly be non-returnable - because of inheritance-tax and care-bills dodges.)

Paying rent is not the same as investing, so depending on how the payments are viewed, the parents may not have built up any "entitlement" to the property. I know I never did, in any rented place!

Jux · 19/10/2015 21:29

Oh dear, is there a chance that if there's no tenancy agreement they can argue that the rent they pay is actually an investment?

Get thee to a solicitor post haste!

Original poster

DaniBubbles · 06/11/2015 10:45

QUICK UPDATE

So since seeing the bank, I had made the decision to just sit on my hands for the time being. Last week though things changed and my parents got in contact saying "we need to talk". I haven't answered but have since walked past my flat and have noticed that all the redecoration that went on when they first moved in (purple floral wallpaper in the living room, tv on the wall etc) is all gone and everything is decorated beige/neutral.

So it seems they have made plans to move out and either sell or rent the flat but have since realised they can't... and are not looking to potentially get a signature off me to hand it over.

My DP is of the idea I should sell it to them.. not at full asking price but for a reasonable amount to compensate all the mortgage/bills/maintenance while I lived there for nearly 8 years.

WWYD?

OP posts:

BrianButterfield · 06/11/2015 11:01

I would be very wary of selling to them. I think they would try to screw you over, do you out of money, quibble over little things in the contract and make your life a misery. They would also then know you had thousands of pounds of "their" money in your possession and I assume would go out of their way to try and get it back.

Your DP is thinking about what he would do with his, presumably normal, parents. With normal people, selling them em flat at a discount would be a reasonable and kind thing to do. But your parents are not normal people. I think they would see this as a sign of weakness and try to exploit it.

They're grown adults and could presumably have rented somewhere else or taken out their own mortgage. They are in charge of where they live and how to pay for it. You're not more responsible for it than I am for my where my parents live and how they pay for it, nor they for me. They are autonomous adults.

pluck · 06/11/2015 11:24

If you do decide to sell, any help they gave your with a deposit could be written into your offer, plus the smallest discount you can imagine (say, 5%), just so they don't try to negotiate you into penury. If the transaction came off, they would have legally accepted your payoff of anything they lent you for the deposit.

Have you seen a solicitor? Maybe try to get one who also knows about "estate planning" and family law, since parents in a child's property is just the sort of non-market situation in which abuses can happen: inheritance tax fiddling, artificially inflated rent for housing benefit, etc. A good solicitor could steer you clear of any traps.

However, it does sound as though it would be cleaner and clearer if they stopped renting from you and you sold the place!

CuntryLiving · 06/11/2015 11:28

They don't want to stay there, they redecorated to move out. So if you sell it to them at a discount, be aware that they will then sell it on at full price, and don't be annoyed about it. I think I'd either get them out and get some other proper tenants in, paying full market rate, or sell it on the open market, at full market value. I'd definitely remain no contact with them at all, no matter what they say, you do not 'need to talk' ever. If they think you owe them something, they can take you to court and a judge can decide. If possible, block contact, as it's easier than ignoring when they'll try anything to get a reaction from you.

MillionToOneChances · 06/11/2015 11:38

You can't let them continue to live in a property you're financially liable for when your relationship is so terrible. They could stop paying the mortgage. They could trash the place. Just sell. Sell, move on, start your life without them.

Optimist1 · 06/11/2015 12:13

Well the status quo is the worst possible scenario, so whether they're planning to move elsewhere or you decide to sell to them you'll be able to extricate yourself from any financial ties. I agree wholeheartedly with pluck that deducting any contribution they made to the deposit and giving them a very small discount would be fair to all parties. And CuntryLiving makes a good point that you shouldn't be surprised if they go on to make a profit by selling at full market value in the near future. Onwards and upwards, OP!

AcrossthePond55 · 06/11/2015 21:47

If it were me and I wanted to sell, I'd get a proper valuation, then offer it to your parents first, but at market value. Cuntry is correct, they'd probably just sell it on.

But if they couldn't afford the mortgage when it was bought, it's highly unlikely they can afford it now. Any 'interest' they have in buying it would probably be for a ridiculous knockdown price so they could make a profit.

reasonable amount to compensate all the mortgage/bills/maintenance while I lived there for nearly 8 years. I'm not sure what this means. Do you mean what they paid when they lived there? That's called 'rent'. Even if you were living there also for 8 years, that doesn't mean you should discount the house price. Perhaps I would knock something off if they paid to renovate a kitchen or bath, added a room, or paid for major repairs (boiler, new windows, carpeting). But not if all they did was paint and repair the little things that routinely go wrong with a house.

cranberryx · 07/11/2015 17:46

Personally, I would not sell to your parents, I would not rent to your parents either.

You need to find a way to get them out of the property as quickly as possible, as they are squatting having not signed a tenancy agreement.

Just reading the thread and some examples of their behaviour has made me feel a little bit sick. Good decision to go NC.

Not that you should do it, but you could leave the disposable bbq on their doorstep, lit, when/if you return it.

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