To not want to hear anything about the suffragettes

[BrandNewAndImproved]

How am I meant to support a movement that was disgustingly racist just because I benefit from it being a white female.

The feminist movement is still subtly racist with a lot of white feminists refusing to see white privilege.

The argument of being of its time doesn't wash. Racism is racism and I refuse to support it.

I'm attempting to grasp your argument, but I cant, because it's incoherent.

You are confusing the completely different origins and racial attitudes of the U.S. and UK women's suffrage movements - central elements of the US movement had strong links to racist organisations, while the UK movement, while far from faultless, did feature prominent women of colour and was in dialogue with overseas movements like the Indian women's suffrage movement .

AND you are confusing Pankhurst's speech which references slavery and rebellion in the context of (a) the rest of her speech and (b) her times, in which non-white men in the UK had considerably more legal rights than women of any colour, and where women's bodies were literally 'enslaved', the Married Women's Property Act was a recent arrival, marital rape was legal, women had only recently stopped being legally part of their husbands, having no right to control their own property or have access to their children

• with an admittedly fairly dopy and un-nuanced use of a single phrase from Pankhurst's speech on some film stars' t-shirts. I think that was unconsidered, and stupid.

Agree with what Liomsa said about the 'slavery' referred to by Pankhurst. Context in interpretation of text is everything. 'We' don't read it like that because that is not our experience, but you only need to read a bit of British social history to see this.

The Suffragette movement dud nothing fir me or my femake relatives. I do not relate to it at all and I say that as a Black woman. I respect your pist OP.

gummy - do you have equal rights in the UK, do you have the vote?
Do look up social history in this country and see how far we have come.

aah - why am I bothering to ask the question? I have better things to do.

OP saying They haven't finished what they started implies that is someone elses job to go and fight for this cause.

TBF I started thread in feminism asking if issues affecting WOC are discussed within the Womens Equality Party and the only comment I got was from BME woman that she hasn't any problem with that not being a separate point of discussion.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/2475627-WOC-in-Womens-Equality-Party

OP what have you done to highlight your concerns about pay inequality?

Here have a my first one, well done!

Your argument is utter rubbish. Research lacks depth, form is probably zero & construction of said argument is disjointed & not very well put to tether.

I suggest to go back to basics and research over time everything about the movement.

I could go on a lot but I've a big day ahead if me. What I will say is that I am eternally grateful for everything that was done for all those generations of women before & after us.

Also if your so concerned with racism why don't you do something positive about it & volunteer somewhere. You know, to mane an actual difference to society rather than storing shit on MN!

Here have another

The Chartists of the 1840s called for universal male suffrage. But they were the progressives of their say.

We should not sneer at earlier generations because we are more "advanced" than they were. We would do well to think what seems obvious to us now and will seem absurd in the lifetime of some now living.

" I would rather be a rebel than a slave "

How is that 'racist' exactly?
You think there is/was no such thing as white slaves?
What are you saying?

Gummy what mollie said. If you have the vote, then it did do something for you and your relatives

^ this

OP, I do understand where you're coming from to some degree. It infuriates me when certain discrimination/prejudice is rampant even whilst speaking out against another...

I don't feel very supportive when I see male friends who are apparently fighting for equality going on anti-racist marches or discussing the finer points of queer theory whilst being utterly sexist in their actions (including dismissing the views of the only woman present when discussing sexism! See "Derailing for Dummies")

Worse though, is the prejudice and discrimination towards people with mental health issues - in fact IMO the very act of labelling some people as "mentally ill" is a discriminatory act (think repressed women being labelled "hysterical" and thus their concerns dismissed - there are modern equivalents). This sort of discrimination is incredibly widespread, amongst people who would never dream of treating other minority groups in the same way.

However, I think it's actually better to lay those differences aside somewhat when fighting a common cause. Otherwise we'd just have loads of tiny groups disagreeing with each other and not making any real change (People's Front of Judea style..!) I would hope that commonality would in time lead to understanding and support for other minority groups.

It's a film. So don't go see it. YABU.

Oh, and the pay thing - wtf?

I get that there might be discrimination leading to BME women (and men) not getting a job in the first place (because it's easy to pretend it's for another reason), but to pay differently because of race? How the hell is anyone getting away with that? How does that situation come about?

Hmm here we go again women have to solve everything, yeah why not have a pop at the sufragettes for not solving FGM in the colonies at the time as well why dont you.

You sound like a typical Tumblr keyboard warrior, with half-baked ideas stemming from a post with cool slogans and pictures.

You cannot understand history if you apply to each event the current ideology you follow. You cannot appreciate the progresses and feats if the only insight you have of it is an attention grabbing article or stunt about it, and some googling.

I hate to say this, but educate yourself first before writing off the women that have lead to way to you being able to travel, vote, and work as you want.

People fighting for women's rights may ignore the rights of black people.
People fighting against racism may ignore the rights of women.
People fighting for the rights of LGBT people may ignore the rights of disabled people.
Pretty much everyone ignores the need for social class equality.
What is your point exactly, OP?

QUITE RIGHT THEY MAKE ME SICK SICK SICK WITH THEIR FIGHTING WHITE FACES

BASTARD RACIST FIGHTING WHITE BASTARD FACES DONT DESERVE THE VOTE

Op you are being unreasonable. So many posters have explained so well and with great intelligence that I actually have nothing that could add to the debate that hasn't already been said. But wanted to post to thank them for their insight.
My mother always taught me it was my duty to vote because people died to give me the right. And I will be teaching my children ( boy and girl) the same. Just because those people were not perfect doesn't matter. They fought for the rights of people not even born yet.

Black gay men have felt abandoned, if not persecuted, by black activists
Working class women have felt marginalised by mc feminists
Muslims, women, gay etc people, all minorities, all with potential to hold discriminatory views and be discriminated against.

However, gay activists turned out and supported mining communities and many other 'cross over' stories.

Any politics that is built around identity politics is bound to have the potential to be flawed, but there are also opportunities for great mutual support. Instead of everyone retreating into smaller and smaller communities of interest in which we are all a victim of something let's pull together as human beings and demand a standard of behaviour that is fair, equitable and ethical for all.

White feminists arguing about lipstick and short skirts, black women ripping into each other over natural hair, the whole women / trans thing.... so inward looking and victimmy.

How dare you call Mrs Banks racist.

Your OP is hogwash but I'm grateful for it, as it has brought out so many intelligent, informed and reasoned responses about a subject that is shamefully neglected in our schools and wider culture.

Massive amen to Brenda, that's exactly how I feel too.

Yeah, you're right. Because it may or may not have been about as racist as society was as a whole at the time, we should hate the fact that women fought to get other women the vote.

What a bloody stupid OP.

Maybe you should give up your vote in protest OP?

I wonder op if you had opened this post by saying as a black women I find that I myself can not celebrate the suffragettes as for black women it just didn't seem to apply who thought of us

There is something about the use of the term white privilege that seems to stir up I am not sure what anxiety, guilt, or uncomfortableness of this statement and the use of it will always gain many responses to excuse and sometimes argue against it

I myself find it uncomfortable to know that it is part of our society even now in 2015