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AIBU?

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Original poster

To not want to hear anything about the suffragettes

285 replies

BrandNewAndImproved · 08/10/2015 23:21

How am I meant to support a movement that was disgustingly racist just because I benefit from it being a white female.

The feminist movement is still subtly racist with a lot of white feminists refusing to see white privilege.

The argument of being of its time doesn't wash. Racism is racism and I refuse to support it.

OP posts:
BrendaFlange · 09/10/2015 07:17

OP, you haven't started a discussion or supported your assertions in the way that enables discussion. So just get on with your own thing.

Shrug.

Any 'single issue' political movement is likely to have glad wrt to other issues . In it's individuals and institution. The American Civil Rights movement was homophobic, with MLK's campaigns manager being encouraged to resign because of his homosexuality. The position of women, too. MLK wasn't great on that and Malcolm X worse .

Problems, and illustrating that there was / is work to be done around sex and sexuality , but should we diss the whole movement and it's achievements? Refuse to go and see Selma?

The link you posted, OP, is entirely American. They were working in a context where black people had different legal rights, a racism at the heart of every legal structure . Of course there was racism in th UK during and within members of the suffrage movement, but you can't just conflate the AWSA with suffragettes .

JeffreysMummyIsCross · 09/10/2015 07:18

The fact is that no woman, white or otherwise, would have any fucking rights at all without the Suffragettes and to try and denigrate what they did just makes you look foolish.
Yes, this. As a non-white woman, I am fucking grateful to feminist movements, not least the suffragettes, for what they have achieved for women in this country. I also don't see the slave thing as relating specifically to black victims of slavery. The term would have been used in a more general sense to indicate a person or group to whom society did not afford certain freedoms.

BrendaFlange · 09/10/2015 07:18

Flaws wrt other issues, not 'glad'

Weathergames · 09/10/2015 07:20

Slightly OT but homosexuality isn't celebrated? Shock

Really?!

Ok then Smile

mollie123 · 09/10/2015 07:22

OP - you are being VVVV unreasonable
read up on the movement in Britain (not America) and learn the facts of what happened with a movement over 100 years ago and why they did what they did.

AnyoneButAndre · 09/10/2015 07:35

The U.S. suffragette movement was definitely tainted by racism partly because of the comparisons made between white women and black men, who in theory already had the vote, because of apartheid within the movement and partly because everything in U.S. politics was tainted by racism - nobody could be neutral. They did, in theory, achieve the vote for all women, not just white ones, though they didn't get anywhere near the institutional race barriers to the franchise.

The same simply does not apply to the UK movement. The leadership was made up of individuals. Some of the women within it were ahead of their time on racial matters, some were decent but of their time, some were later shown to have unpleasant or even abhorrent views. But there's no taint on the UK movement itself, and no reason whatsoever why we shouldn't celebrate it.

This New Statesman article is a bit more in depth.

londonrach · 09/10/2015 07:37

Yabu. They were pioneers and woman enjoy alot of freedom and more equality as a direct result. This happened a 100 years so you cant judge their actions when the world was totally different to today. Very strange post.

Ubik1 · 09/10/2015 07:40

I bet they were transphobic too. And slut shaming.

Why did we ever listen to the suffragettes?

Jasonandyawegunorts · 09/10/2015 07:45

How many black women were in the UK during the Suffragette movement anyway
It's very hard to say as Records about peoples colour were not kept, There were certainly far less black women than men, as mixed race marriages between none white men and white women were high enough in 1910 for the government to issue official advice about the dangers of interracial marriage..

As for the US suffragette movement, not surprisingly racists considering black people were considered second class BY LAW well into the 1960’s.

MissMarpleCat · 09/10/2015 07:47

If you don't agree on the suffragette movement, so be it. No one is forcing you too. With regards to feminism, there are black feminists too.

Fratelli · 09/10/2015 07:51

Op you sound like one of those people who just love to be offended imo. There are so many good things that the suffragettes did for ALL women yet you're choosing to focus on anything you can to take away from that. Sounds pretty sad.....

LittleRedSparke · 09/10/2015 07:51

I have a vague memory of being embarrassed by an Oscars speech last year that excluded women of colour and lesbians (I think it was something like 'gay people, lift us up, black people lift us up', without mentioning the cross-sectionality in those groups.)

So lesbians aren't gay, and women aren't people? What a shame they missed out the transgendered, the bisexual, the children, both boys and girls, the pets, and every other subset in the world.

I can't see personally what's wrong with including lesbians in a heading of gay etc?

Chippednailvarnish · 09/10/2015 07:52

I'm the dalai lama

Nope. You're most certainly not.

thehypocritesoaf · 09/10/2015 07:54

Your argument is completely incoherent.

I blame the suffragettes for that.

Anniegetyourgun · 09/10/2015 07:59

What about that one who threw herself under a racehorse, didn't she care that the horse could have been fatally injured? What a self-centred bitch.

Ubik1 · 09/10/2015 08:01

And yes - some people can be racist and have other terrible attitudes - and still be right about other things.

Mind blown yet op?

cleaty · 09/10/2015 08:08

Many, many lesbians are not gay. Gay usually means men. Hence LGBT mentions lesbians specifically as so many lesbians feel they are not gay, but lesbians.

echt · 09/10/2015 08:13

How am I meant to support a movement that was disgustingly racist just because I benefit from it being a white female. Who's asked you to support it? Have you ever voted?

The feminist movement is still subtly racist with a lot of white feminists refusing to see white privilege. Now you've moved away from the suffragettes, which was the apparent point of your post. Nor have you explained the racism of the current brand of feminists.

The argument of being of its time doesn't wash. Racism is racism and I refuse to support it. Nobody's asking you to support it, and you haven't said why its being of its time does not wash. Nor what racist attitudes are exemplified.

Or anything of a rational, argued point of view.

I've never said this before, such incoherent, ill-supported views as yours are a fucking embarrassment to our sex.

Theydontknowweknowtheyknow · 09/10/2015 08:21

YABU and anachronistic. Yes, it's true that if we met the leaders of great historical movements they would probably shock us with some of their awful opinions but that doesn't mean you should write off the entire movement and disregard the good that it has brought.

Do you write off the civil rights movement because black men paraded the streets wearing the slogan "I am a man" (the implication being that they deserve respect and dignity) as being exclusive and male supremacist?

Do you disregard buddhism because its leader fucked off and left his wife and child whilst he sat under a tree and navel-gazed?

No of course not! You can appreciate the wonderful benefits these movements have brought us whilst being realistic about the views of the time. All movements that challenge widen the net to include more types of people are moving in the right direction and so contribute to progress.

So YABU. Life isn't black and white.

ConstanceMarkYaBitch · 09/10/2015 08:25

So you don't support a movement that ended a century ago because a similar movement in another country wasnt years ahead of its time? And anyone should care because?

Don't be a dick. You've clearly misunderstood almost everything you've talked about anyway.

KitKat1985 · 09/10/2015 08:39

I'm not really sure I'm following OP? Yes there probably were racist women in the suffragette movement, but there were racist women opposed to the suffragette movement too. I don't think that makes the suffragette movement wrong.

I suppose a modern day equivalent would be, (for example), a movement campaigning for better rights for disabled people which had some members with racist views. I can agree with those members on their core issue of better rights for disabled people without having to agree with them on the racism. That doesn't mean that those people can't still do some good that I can applaud them for even if I don't agree with them on everything.

HumphreyCobblers · 09/10/2015 08:43

I am so annoyed by this point of view. I have read things that suggest that the equal rights movement in the sixties wasn't especially feminist but no one (rightly) would dream of abandoning support for equal rights because of this. It is just a silly argument that makes me feel that we are simply not allowed to celebrate any female achievement without a lot of sniping Sad

Thank god for all the voices of reason on this thread.

cleaty · 09/10/2015 09:01

Read about what the suffragettes went through to get us the vote. They were brave women who fought for years to get what we take for granted. So some had racist views. That does not detract from their achievements.

Bakeoffcake · 09/10/2015 09:02

I expect 99% of campaigns/movements at the time were rascist by today's standards.

You cannot just say "don't say it was of the time" because that's exactly what it was.

BuffytheReasonableFeminist · 09/10/2015 09:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.