To think these men could look after their own children occasionally?

[CallaLilli]

I have two friends (well not just two friends, but you know what I mean!)

One has recently gone back to work 3 days a week after maternity leave and has a 12 month old DS. Her husband left his job a few months ago and is currently unemployed. She pays a childminder to look after her DS 3 days a week and was telling me how hard it is as she’s basically just working to pay the childcare costs. AIBU to think her DH could look after their son for at least one of those days so they save on the childminder fee?

The other friend has 2 young children and her partner works fulltime and spends his entire weekend doing his various hobbies, which mean that he’s out of the house then too. She is beyond exhausted as she has no one to help her and gets no time to herself. Another friend suggested her DP occasionally take a weekend off from his hobbies and look after the kids for a few hours so she can have a break but no, apparently his hobbies are very important to him as they help him relax. AIBU to think he’s being a selfish git?

It actually saddens me that in the 21st century there are still men around who don’t pull their weight when it comes to childcare. Why do women put up with it?

(Oh and I’m not a troll or a GF, I’ve just NCed for this in case I’m recognised)

How do you know it's not working?

Needs his relaxation time etc....if this is coming from her lips though, without any sarcasm ....then perhaps she's happy with their dynamic.

I know it because she's said she's exhausted as there's nobody to help her out with the kids and she never gets a break! I assume she wouldn't have said this if the arrangement was working for her.

these men are selfish cunts. i don't know why they ever bother with relationships and kids because they are clearly not interested in either.
i feel sorry for their partners. poor women .

My father was like this. My mother worked at McDonalds when I was born and went back to work when I was two months as he was intentionally unemployed. He would refuse to 'babysit' when my mum was at work so she hired a childminder and he would be sat with me and the childminder during the day. She went on to stupidly have two more kids with him.

He was a terrible father and she should have got out after having me, he showed no interest in fatherhood.

People say I am lucky that DH is so hands on, and Im never allowed to say a bad word against him as "he is so good with the kids". Yeah but that doesnt mean he gets afree pass to leave hos shit all over the house

As a pp said "you get what you settle for". My DH is expected to be half of the parenting team with all that entails and, besides that, he wants to too.

With the first situation - if he's dropping off late/picking up early/maybe keeping the DC home one day a week then it's fine - he's basically keeping the childminding place, but using his time off to spend a bit more time with his DC. I did the same myself when I was made redundant - didn't want to lose my nursery place, but I certainly wasn't taking him in at 8am and leaving him till 6, sort of thing.

If he's doing none of the above then my judgey pants are giving me a wedgie...

Then she needs to speak up and sort it out.

One has recently gone back to work 3 days a week after maternity leave and has a 12 month old DS. Her husband left his job a few months ago and is currently unemployed. She pays a childminder to look after her DS 3 days a week and was telling me how hard it is as she’s basically just working to pay the childcare costs. AIBU to think her DH could look after their son for at least one of those days so they save on the childminder fee?

This is a situation not dissimilar to one we've had. Dh lost his job so was suddenly unemployed. We could manage on just my salary, but it was tight and I probably moaned about money on cc at one time or another.

We kept the dc with the cm for two reasons. Firstly because dh was literally spending all day, every day, job hunting. Either searching and applying for things online, writing speculative applications to companies in his field, going on interviews etc. Looking after the dc too would have hugely taken away the time he had available to do this and him getting a new job was absolute priority.

Secondly because if he had looked after the dc, we would have lost our places with the cm which I didn't want to do as she was awesome.

So YABU to judge on that one IMO.

The second one sounds like a selfish ahole though.

I just find it amazing that hobbies were even able to creep back in have they been doing nothing??? I work full time, are up with DS, fed and changed to hand over to DW then when get home from work feed DS dinner, change for bed and bottle. Obvs this only possible as work close to where I live.

Only hobbies I get is odd hour here and there for some gaming.

DW works a mix of Weekends and evenings so I do the rest, as childcare costs bonkers.

How did they let this situation even happen.

Why did the guy leave his job when he had dependants???

I think there is a mix of feckless dads and or mothers who took too much ownership.

Second example YANBU
First example it depends if cutting down on CC would impede job hunting and how the couple feel about finances and whether they actually prefer out of the home CC.
According to some women on the "FT parent" thread at the moment though looking after your own DC does not constitute work or effort so it is not only some men who think like this.

The answer is put your fucking foot down! Who wouldn't be out enjoying themselves if they had the chance - it's up to you to stop it.

No.

The answer is not to blame the victims of male laziness and entitlement.

Who wouldn't be out enjoying themselves if they got the chance by taking the piss out of their partner?

Any decent human being.

Nobody should need to "put their foot down" or "stick up for themselves" to avoid being treated like shit by a partner who would exploit them if they could get away with it.

The fault is with the person who is not doing their fair share, who is not taking responsibility for their own children, who is using their partner (almost always a woman) as a skivvy.

We need to teach our daughters to stay the fuck away from men like this, not have children with them, and leave immediately if this shit starts during maternity leave.

Nobody deserves a life if having to battle against your partner to stop him exploiting you.

A person who loves you won't take the piss out of you.

Oh ffs its not blaming the victims. Don't remove responsibility from women for their own choices, its fucking insulting to make out we're poor little women at the mercy of the big bad men.

Women sometimes piss poor choices in which men to procreate with. Its not like perfect housework sharing feminist new men suddenly turn into lazy neanderthals who don't do a tap in the delivery room.

Of course its the fault of the dickhead who does nothing, but if his wife, who chose him in the first place, just accepts it and does everything and does his work as well as her own, she's a fucking mug.

Of course you are right bathtime but unless the woman speaks up, I don't think some of these men even realise they're taking the piss. They don't see that they're being selfish until it's pointed out to them.

Some of course know exactly what they're doing but then if the wife says nothing to them, they just carry on.

"Nobody deserves a life if having to battle against your partner to stop him exploiting you." Excellent post from Bathtime.

I think a good many more KNOW they are taking the piss then let on - I used to work in Scotland and it was called "daft Laddie" syndrome.

The woman in these cases gets so ground down that it seems her only choices are resent or else battle it. Fair enough, if the man is a decent sort once it's explained to them they should cop on, however if not battling will only be exhausting and women have to recognise they have an additional choice - get out of the situation (though easier said than done I know). It's not up to them to try to "train" their partner to be a decent human being - they have their hands full trying as a parent to instill being a decent human being into their kids.

We don't have children but I have been told many times how 'lucky' I am that my (male) DP does his share of the cooking and housework And yes, its always from other women. I think its possible worse if you're married (we're not) - a lot of people think that a 'wife' becomes a domestic slave and that its just part and parcel of the role.

A friend of mine moved in with her bloke when they were both in their late 20s, neither had lived with anyone other than family before. Her bloke fully expected that she would make his dinner every evening, and his sandwiches for lunch every day - not out of being an entitled arsehole, but just out of cluelessness. His mum had always done these things for him, so he expected that as the new woman in his life, she would do the same. She put him straight very clearly and quickly and he was fine with it, but quite gobsmacked.

I regularly hear shite from women at work about how men 'just don't see dirt /mess' and the usual crap about babysitting their own kids. Housework and childcare are still very much seen as women's work by many people, which is just shocking and horrifying in 2015

I have a friend who leaves a list of tasks to be done around the house for her husband as “men can’t be relied upon to remember stuff like that, lol”. It is really quite staggering that so many women are fooled into believing that men are just overgrown children who need to be micromanaged into doing things or else they won’t get done. Will these guys ever take responsibility for themselves?

I had an ex who wouldn't look after DS & DD whilst I worked.

I LTB

Now have a partner who looks after DS, DD and his own son DS2 whilst I work during his holidays - and guess what? I think he's fucking amazing.

I have a DH who is a SAHP. In just the last week I have been told 'You must have a brilliant DH if you are allowed to go out in the evenings' and then had 20 questions from an optician because I was in the opticians during the day and didn't have my 4 yo daughter with me and it simply didn't compute.

'Do you have children'
'yes, one 4 yo'
'Are they at school then?'
'no my husband and I decided to home-ed'
'Oh so you don't work?'
'I work at the university'
'part time then?'
'no, full time'
'then who is she with?'
'her father'
'but how can he do it and work?'
'he doesn't work'
'but you do?'
.......
the rest of the conversation doesn't really show either of us in a good light....but the general drift was total puzzlement on her part that my husband was bringing up and education our child and total rage on my part that the world is still so jeffing sexist.

Think I would blame the women as much as the men.

But it's probably hard to see how to change the dynamic. They obviously don't go on MN.

Completely agree Bathtime DH and I were married and both working and keeping house together for 10 years before having dc. It would never have occurred to either of us to see dc as anything other than a joint responsibility.

I have 3 dds and will be strongly discouraging them away from any man in search of an in-house maid / childminder.

Her bloke fully expected that she would make his dinner every evening, and his sandwiches for lunch every day - not out of being an entitled arsehole, but just out of cluelessness.

Sorry, but no.

Fully expecting another human to service your needs for food without paying them, purely because of their vagina, is the very definition of being an entitled arsehole.

The fact that he was amenable to being told to get fucked doesn't change what a wanker he was to think he could get away with using your friend as his skivvy.

It is never "cluelessness" that makes adults think other adults exist to serve them. It is a sense of superiority and status.

If she hadn't told him to get bent, she'd currently be wasting her time and energy doing free work for her male superior and he'd be letting her.

DH is the SAHP. He is the only one of all the SAHPs we know, male and female, who can do his own thing on Saturday morning for a break while the WOHP (me) looks after the children.

Each to their own, but I find it sad the working parents don't want to have time with the children after a whole week at work not being able to hang out with them much. And I am amazed at the number of SAHP who do the childcare all weekend in addition to weekdays while the WOHP potters about pleasing him/herself.

Children are wonderful, but so is a bit of respite from them.

I get what you're saying Bathtime. It does seem truly pathetic that a grown adult would think like this and its pretty scary that he needed telling at all. However, I know him and he is a nice guy, not controlling or domineering or misogynist (that I have ever seen anyway). I say that to show that even 'nice', regular guys, who are not knuckle dragging neanderthals, can have one hell of a long way to go in terms of recognising that their role in maintaining the home is equal to their female partner's.

Well expecting someone else to make all your meals because they are a woman is definitely misogynist.

It's also IMO a controlling and domineering attitude to expect another human to spend their time doing your skivvy work so you don't have to.

Nice he may be, but there's an important difference between a nice person and a good person.

Do they have children yet?

Because it's often the "clueless" ones whose essential misogyny gets temporarily put away until they have their skivvy over a barrel by having a baby with her.

MyFavourite perfect sentiments.

I have a friend whose DH works long hours all week while she's the SAHM. He has a lie in both weekend days and I've often bumped into her out and about on the weekend days with her DD, and with DH no where to be seen. Apparently they've had marriage counselling. No shit! He needs a 'break' at the weekend from work. What does he think she does all week AND all weekend? I work part time in a senior management job as a break from the kids