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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

DB/SIL- Wills and lending money. Have had enough- AIBU?

90 replies

jacks11 · 05/10/2015 00:07

I know, another BIL/SIL thread. This will probably be long, as it let's me vent!

my df very unwisely let slip to my brother the conditions of DF&DM's will (and he has acknowledged that he was extremely foolish to have done so). Now all hell has let loose as DB and SIL are "furious".

I have said to DB that, ultimately, our parents have the right to bequeath their assets in whatever way they see fit as far as I'm concerned. He wants me to "do something about it". I think the will is up to our parents, and I can see why my parents have done things this way. My inclination is to keep out of it.

The issue here is that due to my brother's problems, some still on-going, and both his and SIL's complete inability to manage money (it burns a hole in their pocket as soon as they get it, they are always in debt etc), my parents felt it would be best that his share be put into a trust. DB could draw money from this trust for certain things which would need approval of the trustees but will not have the money "cash in hand" so to speak. We will get equal shares. My share will not be held in trust.

This was done partly because my parents want to protect DB from himself and ensure that, if nothing else, the money is used (as far as they can ensure) wisely and to his benefit. As opposed to "pissed up the wall" or spent on rubbish/short-term "luxury" indulgence, which is what undoubtedly would happen (and has happened with DB's redundancy money in the past). Also, DM says she feels that she and DF have worked hard for what they have and don't want to see it wasted.

DB has a son and a step-son who is several years older. Our parents have left a reasonable sum to both my DD and the younger DN (to be held in trust for them until they are 21 years but can be accessed earlier for specified purposes, such as education). They have also left a (smaller) sum to DBs Step-son. SIL is very angry about this, but my parents feel he could/will inherit from both sets of his own grandparents so doesn't need a 3rd inheritance. They feel they are leaving an acknowledgement that he is a part of their family by bequeathing him something. I can see both sides of this, but come down on the side that he does have 2 other sets of grandparents to inherit from. SIL is angry as she says my parents are likely to leave far more than her parents or her ex-IL's and her son will be disadvantaged. DB/SIL are also still very angry about another inheritance (my grandmother)- long story and previous thread about this. Suffice to say DB did something very horrible to DGM, he did not apologise or acknowledge what he did was wrong and as a result was cut out of her will. I was not.

DB hurled a tirade at me on the phone yesterday. I asked him to stop, he didn't so I said I wasn't willing to discuss it any further with him until he could apologise and then act in a civilised manner and hung up. He rang back and did the same, so I did the same. He has now sent me a very angry email suggesting I "put them up to it". Which is ridiculous, as our parents are not a vulnerable, frail elderly couple who could be easily pressurised or bamboozled into changing their will- they are perfectly capable people. They have done this because they feel it's the right thing to do. I have known about the will for a while, but I have had no input into their decision. He also kept ranting on about how unfair it is that I have x, y, z and he and his family don't. The disparity between us is not due to inheritance- I earn more than he does (and had to work hard to get where I am), so I don't see it as unfair. It is not my fault that he has the job (and income) he has- that's down to him (and SIL).

Then today he emailed (no apology) to say they have some financial problems and could I please lend them money! He has requested a sum I could afford to lend. However, they have still to repay money I leant them a number of years ago (they promised to pay back in instalments and have not paid back a single penny). I have asked them about it in the past, but they get evasive or "did you really want it back?" (yes, that's why we discussed how much you could afford to pay back per month) or " but then DN's would suffer as we're so skint at the moment". TBH, I have written off that loan but made a note never to lend to them under any circumstances. Apparently, our parents have also declined to lend them any more money. SIL text me to say she couldn't believe we would let them down in this way, and leave them to struggle on and leave "the boys to go without".

My AIBU is that I think this really is the last straw. I am not going to lend them money and I have had enough of DB /SIL and their drama, trouble-making, scheming and manipulation. Their financial problems are not my responsibility and I hate the attempt at guilt-tripping me into giving them money by using their boys. I have as little contact as possible, but I just think now that the only times I want to see him and his wife are at family gatherings when I don't really have a choice. They bring nothing but aggravation to my life. AIBU?

OP posts:
jacks11 · 05/10/2015 00:08

wow, that was a bit of a thesis (and quite muddled). Sorry.

OP posts:
Troubletutmill · 05/10/2015 00:18

Do not lend them money

Its not your fault that your parents with some good reasons do not trust his financial judgement.

I have lots of hard up relatives its the ones that dont make a bloody fuss nor waste money that I have helped in the past.

Muldjewangk · 05/10/2015 00:21

YANBU, I would not lend them any more money either.

Whatthefoxgoingon · 05/10/2015 00:24

Nope, not unreasonable. They sound feckless to the extreme, and manipulative with it. Your parents judgement is sound. Stay a long way away from these users.

SolidGoldBrass · 05/10/2015 00:24

YANBU. They are crap with money and whatever you gave them would not be enough. You don't owe them anything, and nor do your parents.

coconutpie · 05/10/2015 00:25

YANBU at all! Your brother sounds like a self-absorbed entitled twat.

Andro · 05/10/2015 00:26

Your parent's wills are their own choice, you are right to take the view that it's up to them how they distribute their assets.

Yanbu not to lend to your brother and hjis wife, if they'll renage on one loan agreement they'll do it again.

Your brother and sil need some manners and boundaries...we'll done for putting your boundaries in place.

MNemonica · 05/10/2015 00:28

You would be very unreasonable if you lent them even a fiver. They sound awful.

OutToGetYou · 05/10/2015 00:31

Don't lend anything.

But I suspect a trust to your DB would be ineffective as he is over 18, see the rule in Saunders v Vaultier.

If it is for him alone, i.e. not a beneficial interest with the remainder left to someone else, then under the rule in that case he can end the trust and have the money. Solicitors should point this out but they don't because they like their fees. The wishes of the benfactor are not relevant I'm afraid. Loads of case law on it.

In your shoes is just make cooing noises but keep out of it. I believe people should be allowed to bequeath their assets as they wish. It might all end up irrlevant anyway, it might all be spent on care, or lost on the horses.

diggerdigsdogs · 05/10/2015 00:34

Don't lend them a penny.

Yanbu at all to cut contact either.

As a side point my dad re married when I was a teenager. He brought up my then tween aged stepbrother and sees him as a son. My step brother will end up inheriting from him, his mum and his dad so three lots of inherritance.

DH thinks it's a bit odd that he will end up with far more than dbro and I but I feel very strongly that it's my dad's choice to do as he pleases with his money - including leaving it all to charity. It's the only attitude to take that won't lead to a falling out frankly.

WyldChyld · 05/10/2015 00:47

I actually remember your last thread OP. Your DB and DSIL are incredibly unreasonable. Do not loan them a penny and I would be pressing them to pay back the last loan, even at £5 a month. It's about financial responsibility.

Wrt your DStep-nephew (?), a friend is in his position. She is very touched to be thought of at all, never mind that it is a reduced amount

jacks11 · 05/10/2015 00:49

Out

I don't know the ins-and-outs of the trust thing but as far as I know the way it is being set up he will not be able to dissolve the trust. We live in Scotland so not sure if that changes things?

OP posts:
Iflyaway · 05/10/2015 00:54

They sound awful, quite frankly.

How dare they be so entitled, quite apart from quibbling your parents choice what to do with their own money, to expect you to bail them out - again! When they haven't even made an effort to pay you back your generous loan to them before.

As for your SIL bitching about her son's/DB's step son's "entitlement" to your parents hard-worked-for cash.... well, words fail me really..

You sound lovely and you need to get harder to their demands (cos you've been generous already with them) cos the older your parents get the more they will ramp up the pressure.

Remember. "With every choice you create your own future". What they chose to do with their life is NOT any of your business or your responsibility.

With people I have lent money to before (have done) I would be asking them about paying back the loan you already gave them every time they ask for a new one. Show them you're not a pushover.

Oh, and ignore the blackmail our poor kids. How dare they use them for their own poor choices in life.

You can do this! Good luck.

OutToGetYou · 05/10/2015 00:55

Not sure re Scotland. All trusts can be ended by the beneficiary if they are over 18, of sound mind and are the only beneficiary (or even if there is more than one if they all agree). Read the case, Wiki has a page on it.

MoonSandwich · 05/10/2015 01:11

It would be the last straw if I were you.

emotionsecho · 05/10/2015 01:57

No you are not unreasonable at all, what a cheek ranting and raving at you and then asking for money from you, I wouldn't be surprised if he's not trying to bleed you dry as punishment for being better off financially and being treated better, as he sees it, by your parents.

Time he took responsibility for his actions although that seems unlikely to happen.

I think your parents have done the right thing I hope it proves to be binding, perhaps you should mention to them what the other poster said.

Hopefully your dh won't let slip any more financial information, what on earth possessed him to do so knowing the recent history and db and sils temperament.

Don't lend them anything, when they rant and rave mention the other loan and as you say only see/speak to them at unavoidable family functions.

Want2bSupermum · 05/10/2015 02:36

I refuse to lend to my sister as she has proved to be an unreliable repayer. Given they have not repaid you from the first loan hell would freeze over before I had any money arrangements between us again.

As to the will I think you are best to stay out of it. If either of them say anything tell them to speak to your parents. Also tell him that rather than hoping for an inheritance they should be looking to create their own financial future. While my father is very wealthy I have never expected to inherit a penny from him. My brother and sister both do expect to inherit. It's very sad IMO b

BrideOfWankenstein · 05/10/2015 02:45

I knew from just the title that it's about them and it's the third thread in 2015 I read about these twats.
You should've gone NC after your DF's birthday, but you still let them call you and treat you like shit. Confused
BTW, what happened with their "holiday" plans at your house? Did you tell them to FOTTFSOFATFOSM? And did they still tried to come to your house?

Anyway, I believe I've said it before: go NC. You don't need them in your life. They are not good for you, they behave like couple of cave people and will only make you feel guilty about things you earned yourself.
Just dump them and never look back.

BrideOfWankenstein · 05/10/2015 02:46

Damn, forgot the main point. Obviously don't lend them any money either.

GloGirl · 05/10/2015 03:31

What did he say to your DGM?!

No I would not loan them any money. I personally think it's unfair to her son but so what? It's still nothing to do with you.

Just tell your brother to phone back after he's stopped whining.

Baconyum · 05/10/2015 03:48

I remember previous threads too I'd be going NC with these tossers. I've gone NC with my sister for similar reasons and its made life so much easier. It is sad and I'd hoped it wouldn't reach this point but she really left me no choice.

thundernlightning · 05/10/2015 04:18

Good God. Aggressive, entitled, manipulating, demanding people, aren't they?

Their behaviour would be completely unacceptable coming from a friend, and it's utterly unforgivable coming from family. Particularly the suggestion that the kids will suffer if you don't cough up. Blood ties are supposed to be a joy, not a weapon.

Personally, I wouldn't lend (or even speak) to them. They sound incredibly exhausting and destructive.

thundernlightning · 05/10/2015 04:20

(Incidentally, I'm NC with some members of my immediate family. Honestly? One of the best thing I ever did for myself. 10/10, do recommend. Good luck, OP.)

Unreasonablebetty · 05/10/2015 06:43

I'm with most people on this thread. Have you considered NC? I'm actually NC with all of my relatives, life is much happier now. I don't need to put up with their general twattishness. And it's great.

As for lending them money don't do it!! A few years ago my husband (was only boyfriend then) lost his business, and generally turned into a complete arsehole at the same time, borrowed money off of everyone, including me and never paid him back.
There were people he asked who dropped him, then there were his parents/gps who lent him money that he couldn't repay. Essentially he would have just kept on going If his parents wouldn't have said, nope sorry, we can't this time.
It was a hard time for him, but he eventually sat himself down and took a look at his life. He realised things needed to change and he made changes to how he deals with money, and he is so much more careful that if he were to need any help nowadays, there are a list of people who would happily lend him money.
We are so thankful that His parents said no to him (this wasn't just once but a repeated sorry but no) he had to wade through the mess he created and came out of it a much better person. It's best for your brother to sort himself out or he will always act like a petulant child/ shouting when he doesn't get his own way.

Bottlecap · 05/10/2015 06:57

I would cut him off. You can leave room for the possibility that he might change, but for now go NC.

And of course don't lend him money, but surely you already know that.

I too would like to know what he did to your grandmother.